No Sanity Required
No Sanity Required is a weekly podcast hosted by Brody Holloway and Snowbird Outfitters. Each week, we engage culture and personal stories with a Gospel-driven perspective. Our mission is to equip the Church to pierce the darkness with the light of Christ by sharing the vision, ideas, and passions God has used to carry us through 26 years of student ministry. Find more content at swoutfitters.com.
No Sanity Required
The Men in the Fire | Beyond the Flannelgraph
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Daniel 3 isn’t just a familiar story, it’s about pressure to conform and the cost of staying faithful. Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego face a culture that demands compromise, and their response is simple: God can deliver, but even if He doesn’t, they won’t bow.
Brody and JB talk about what that kind of faith looks like today, how cultural pressure shows up, and why God’s presence matters more than an easy way out.
Lessons Learned From Hezekiah on Faith and Failure
"In God's Underground" by Richard Wurmbrand
Daniel 3
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Click here to get our Colossians Bible study.
Retreat Recap And Welcome
SPEAKER_03Hey everyone, welcome back to NSR. We just came off of our spawn women's retreat this past weekend. So that was a blast. I know a lot of family and friends came up. My mom came up and my aunt, shout out to them. Um, but it was a great weekend. Uh but today me and Bertie are sitting down and we are gonna be doing a beyond the flannel graph, which are some of my favorite episodes, but we're gonna be doing it on the story of the men in the fiery furnace in Daniel. Um and so kind of want to preface, and we'll probably talk about this more in the episode. Uh, this aligns directly with our theme for this summer and our teaching topics for this summer. So last year we went through Romans 8, which is awesome. And this year, our theme is God with us. And so that's what we're Brody's gonna kind of be giving you guys a sneak peek into one of his sessions for this summer, um, but really going beyond, you know, the flannel graph and telling more details and just talk just having a conversation about it. Uh so that's what we're gonna be doing. Thank you guys for tuning in and welcome to No Sanity Required.
SPEAKER_00Welcome to No Sanity Required from the Ministry of Snowbird Wilderness Outfitters, a podcast about the Bible, culture, and stories from around the globe.
SPEAKER_01Okay, first off, I'm excited to do this because, like you said in the intro, beyond the flannel graph is it's probably my favorite personal thing to do because you grew up in church, a generation behind me. I grew up in church, generation behind a fan of um my parents who grew up in church. And so you've got these generational stories that get told for people that grow up in church, there's I feel like there's a whole set of stories that you learn as a kid, like when you're really little, um, but then you kind of move on from.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And you almost miss the point. You almost miss the point because if you're if you're a six-year-old listening to the story of the four men in the fire, um, and you're a 26-year-old restudying that story, there is some theological depth to it and some practical application that are gonna hit you where you're at, where you're living, which is one of the things I love about the familiarity and the freshness of the scripture. Yeah, no matter how familiar something is, um, it's there's always gonna be a fresh word from the Lord.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Well, even for me, like if you told me, hey, we're gonna do a podcast on the men in the furnace, I'd be like, okay, I'm well versed in that, I can talk on that. But it's like, well, do I actually know what scripture says, or if I have I just watched the veggie tales episode on it, you know? So it's cool for me to really hear you talk about it and like read and dig deep into scripture, and just like you said y'all's generation, it's it's veggie tales, yeah.
SPEAKER_01And my the flannel graph thing, a lot of people probably don't know. Do you even know what that is?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, it's like the felt pieces, yeah.
SPEAKER_01So it looks like a little bulletin board and it's a felt backing, and it's like almost like a little construction paper cutout of the characters, and that was what we had when I was a kid. When I was growing up, there there were no videos or movies, anything that was Bible stories, yeah, it didn't exist, that came along later. And so we had flannel graph, and we loved it. I remember as a little kid when they broke out the flannel graph, it was because it was visual, yeah, it was story time, it was story time, and I think so there's a veggie tale about this story. Do you remember that? No, I remember so I only had one kid that was into veggie tales, it was Kilby. And and then I think what happened was Tuck and Laley were disinterested, and then by the time Juju came along, I didn't like the direction they were taking things, so we didn't do it. But um, yeah, there was an episode, and I and I can't remember exactly how it went, but I'm pretty sure it was about a chocolate bunny factor.
SPEAKER_03Oh yes, I have seen it. Isn't that this story? Yeah, yeah. It is we I didn't even realize that that was it.
SPEAKER_01That's this story.
SPEAKER_03That's hilarious. Oh my gosh, yeah. I didn't, I I still speaking of Veggie Tales, did you ever see the episode with the rumor weed?
SPEAKER_01Oh yeah.
SPEAKER_03My mom still knows she'll be like, don't be a rumor weed. I'm like, okay, you're right.
SPEAKER_01I remember that one. I feel like that when you were a kid, there was a there was a cluster, like a group of those that were they're like the classic Veggie Tale cartoons.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
Babylon Exile And Identity Assault
SPEAKER_01With the silly songs. Yes. Um, but yeah, the rumor weed, uh, the chocolate money. Yes, the David and Goliath one, which I've referenced in at camp doing messages on David, yeah, because it was so wrong. The message of that. The whole theme song of that episode about David and Goliath was this little junior asparagus singing, with God's help, little guys can do big things. Like, that's not the point story. You can't do anything, you need God to do it, you know. And so, um, but I and I now to be fair, I don't remember the chocolate bunny episode. So I don't know if I got it right or got it wrong, but it's a familiar story. Yeah. So let's back up um and talk a little bit about who these guys are. So a couple things to understand the to set the stage for the Daniel 3 story. We'll I'm gonna have you read it in a minute. To set the stage, we enter Daniel 3 at a time in history and a time in the story where um if you read Daniel 1 and 2, what happens is the Babylonian Empire is sort of taking over the world. They go and they invade Israel, and what they do, they they practice something that was fairly common in the ancient world, and it was um it was basically they used assimilation to dissolve a national identity of a people. So they would assimilate people into their own culture and and sort of wash out their national identity. And what this would look like is they come to Israel, they take all of the most gifted young men and women, and then they put them in positions in Babylonian culture, they make them Babylonian. But with the boys, what they would do is they would castrate them, they would make them eunuchs. So these, which was a fairly common practice back then. So what they're doing is they're saying, okay, these boys are very gifted. And if you ask what if someone would say, How do you know that? Because in Daniel chapter one, they are put in the care of the chief of eunuchs. So this guy's job was to manage the exiles from Israel who had been turned into eunuchs. This was a fulfillment of an old prophecy a hundred years earlier, where where God had told a king named Hezekiah, who we did a recent episode on, hey, your grandsons are going to be castrated and turned into eunuchs and carried away to Babylon.
SPEAKER_04Wow.
SPEAKER_01So we know these boys, we know that happened. Okay. Why is that significant? It's significant because in every society, in every generation, in every culture, there will always be an assault on God's design for sexuality and gender. Right. There will always be an attack.
SPEAKER_05Right.
SPEAKER_01That's it. That's like Satan's attack ground zero. And when you think about why, as Christians, are we so adamant about fighting for the biblical views of sexuality and gender, is because it's a demonic attack on what God designed. God designed men and women to have a specific role in multiplication and procreation and filling up, subduing, and taking dominion over the earth. And so anything that attacks God's design is demonic. Well, we know Babylon becomes this symbol. Babylon is a symbol of satanic demonic influence in the world. And so throughout the Bible, you've got this idea of the spirit of Babylon, which is Babylon was a lit was an actual place with an actual series of rulers, kings, conquerors, but it also, if you zoom out, Babylon represents the world pushing back against what Jesus has designed for us. And so the spirit of Babylon is this thing you see throughout scripture all the way into the end of the age, which we've just done all this eschatology stuff. When you read the book of Revelation, you see Babylon come up. Babylon the Great, Babylon the Great, the Great Harlot, the beast, like all these images and figures are tied to Babylon. So these three boys were part of a group of guys who were like they were royalty in Israel.
SPEAKER_04Okay.
SPEAKER_01So they were the descendants of the Israelite kings. They were then trained in the equivalent of like a classical education in the king's palace, learning about the prophets, the law of God, Moses, David, um, all of the Old Testament writings. So they were versed and raised, being taught in the equivalent of like a really faithful Christian education. They then are um captured, emasculated, and carried seven, marched seven hundred and something miles, seven hundred and fifty miles to the epicenter of the Babylonian Empire, which is the city of Babylon. So Babylon is a city, it's also an area, a province, a region, a country, a nation, an empire, and then it's a spirit.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_01So it has a lot of identifiers, you know, like in scripture. So they're carried there. And what they would do is they would assimilate these boys into first, they would indoctrinate them in their religion and education. So they would, again, now we've got a parallel to where we're at today. They put them in the public education system and send them to the University of Babylon, which was the first really known university in history.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And in that university, they learned all of the pagan deities, rituals. It was a it was an immersion and indoctrination. So if you think about it, again, a parallel.
SPEAKER_03And how old would these guys be, like around?
SPEAKER_01Uh, they would have been teenagers.
SPEAKER_03Okay.
SPEAKER_01They would have been teenagers. I don't know if they'd have been like 14, 15, they'd have been 17, 18. Yeah, I'm not sure, but they would have been teenagers. Um, yeah, my thought is they were probably like between 15 and 17 when they're carried away.
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Because they are they're youths.
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_01They're they're they're teens, uh, or young men. And and they were young enough that they had not taken wives yet in Israel.
SPEAKER_04Okay.
SPEAKER_01So these boys flourish, and they actually, the Bible tells us in the chapter prior to the one we're looking at in Daniel 2, that they are put in positions of leadership over the provinces. So they become the equivalent of like county commissioners or congressmen, yeah, state representatives. So they have they have excelled, like they've excelled and they've done really well, which is also a fulfillment of prophecy. Because when the Lord, through the prophet Jeremiah, he made a prophecy uh a long time before this, where he said, you're over a hundred years prior, he said, you're gonna be carried into Babylon, you're gonna become slaves in Babylon. Here's what I want you to do: two things. I'm going to go with you. You're leaving the land of promise, you're being displaced, you're no longer gonna be in Israel, you're gonna be carried away in exile, you're gonna become captives. Terrible things are gonna happen to you. I'm going to be with you. I will not leave you. My spirit will be with you, my presence will be felt. I'll go with you there. And for a long period of history, you will be exiled to this place in a foreign land. And so God had prophesied that. And here's what he tells them: because I'm gonna be with you, when you get there, assimilate into the culture, start businesses, become teachers, educators, go into law enforcement, go into engineering, assimilate into that culture.
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_01That's your new home. I'm gonna be with you, and you're gonna be a light in that culture. There's a lot for us to learn as American Christians because uh I think a lot of times we either overly assimilate, like we we become like the world, yeah, or we push back so hard.
SPEAKER_03So aggressively and so with such hostility that it makes people who are not believers be like, they're judgmental. That's right. They're rude, they're gonna, you know, and then they don't want to hear what we got to say.
SPEAKER_01Exactly. They're not gonna listen to what you got to say. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03I feel like at first when you say that, it kind of even makes me like, what? He told them to assimilate, but it like because at first, you know, it's like, no, we have to protect our ourself. And it's like, no, we're to be in the world, but not of the world, you know. Like, how do you think we're gonna be living on faith if we're such closed doors and like you know, but I think that's good.
SPEAKER_01And we have the gift of hindsight to look back through history and see how the Lord did use that assimilation, and then how the same principle was applied to the apostles when Jesus left. He's like, go into the world, yes, go to Jerusalem, go to Judea, go, and then Paul would later say, I'll be all things to all people, so that by any means I might win some. And so the principle of assimilation is a biblical principle. Yeah, but it is what you just said, you nailed it. We're to be in the world, but not of the world. Yep. And do you remember there's a saying I I always use with students, we love the world for we love the world for what we offer the world, but not what it offers us.
SPEAKER_03But not what it offers us.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, you got it. So yeah, we love the world for what we offer the world. So we love the world. Yeah, I love the world. But then John says, don't love the world or the things in the world. So that's what he's he's saying. Don't love the world for what the world offers you. These guys loved Babylon for because they were burdened for Babylon and they wanted to be a lot in Babylon.
SPEAKER_03And that we can even talk about this for a long time. That's a whole different type of love, too. Because if you're loving the world for what it has to bring you, it's it's just selfish. You're gonna be burned, you know, you're gonna run out of things to love and move on to something else. But if you're loving it out of like the burden of your heart, it's a whole different type of love. You know what I mean? Like because it's in some ways, I don't want to say unconditional, but in some ways, like that's what we're called. Like, okay, this person did just hypothetically spit in my face, but that's not because I'm not loving the world for what it has to offer, I'm moving on, I'm turning the other cheek. You know what I mean?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah, I think that's a actually a really good point because it's it's the idea of an intrinsic love. Yeah, meaning it's a love that comes from inside of me and is projected onto others, not I love you because of what you've done for me. Exactly.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_01So I think when we think about what this would have been like for these boys, it would have been so brutal. Like what I don't want to discredit or downplay what they went through. Let's say they're let's say they're 14, 15 years old, um they're removed from their home, removed from the the comfort of of their culture, yeah, what was familiar to them. They are emasculated, uh, it which in and of itself would have been a barbaric procedure. I'm I'm not trying to be, I don't want to be gross or but I've done this to animals. You know, you we do this to like when you're raising a beef, when it's a calf, you do this. When you are, you know, like we've done this in Honduras where we helped them start a pig operation where they could raise their own meat. We had to go down there and teach them how to do this to young boar pigs. And it is, there's it it can't be, it needs to be underscored. It's brutal to imagine what these boys went through. Okay. Then they're marched 750 miles, but somewhere along the way, all we're told is that they resolved. They resolved to now the third piece is they had their names changed. So they had Hebrew names, their names were changed, and each of their new names is a pagan Babylonian name that means something anti-God. So that's pretty interesting.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, that's very interesting.
SPEAKER_01So it'd be like if if if you're today a Christian and you live here and you're raised in a Christian household, and your name's Daniel or John Mark, you know, or Esther, and you're carried away to a radical jihadist Muslim culture where Sharia law rules, and they put a burqa on you and make you the slave wife, you know, number wife number 11 to someone who's in a powerful position, you lose, and then they name you something that relates to that culture, and you they erase your identity. They take the boys, they name them, they make them these emasculated slaves, and they give them new names. But the names are like honorable names in the Babylonian culture.
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
The Statue Decree And Pluralism
SPEAKER_01So they're trying to eradicate their identity, but maximize their giftings for for the good of the Babylonian Empire. So these boys find themselves in this situation, and what we're told in Daniel 1 is that Daniel, and we can assume these guys too remains faithful. So they they they go through the university, they get they're advanced, they're put in this really powerful position, um, or not powerful, but influential position, like a really respected, admired, revered position, like a sought-after position. And um, and then they're they're faced with a a really difficult situation, and that's what we'll read. So um let's let's do this. Yep. Can you read the it's gonna be lengthy, but that's okay. Um 30 verses total. Let's read the first 15 verses and then talk about that. Yep.
SPEAKER_03Daniel 3. King Nebuchadnezzar made a gold statue, 90 feet tall and nine feet wide, and set it up on the plain of Dura and the Providence of Babylon. Then he sent messages to the high officers, officials, governors, advisors, treasurers, judges, magistrates, and all the provincial officials to come to the dedication of the statue he had set up. So all of these officials came and stood before the statue King Nebuchadnezzar had set up. Then Herald shouted out, People of all races and nations and languages, listen to the king's command. When you hear the sound of the horn, flute, zither, lyre, harp, pipes, and other musical instruments, bow to the ground to worship King Nebuchadnezzar's gold statue. Anyone who refuses to obey will immediately be thrown into a blazing furnace. So at the sound of the musical instruments, all the people, whatever their race or nation or language, bowed to the ground and worship the gold statue that King Nebuchadnezzar had set up. But some of the astrologers went to the king and formed informed on the Jews. They said to King Nebuchadnezzar, Long live the king. You issued a decr a decree requiring all the people to bow down and worship the gold statue when they hear the sound of the horn, flute, zather, lyre, harp, pipes, and other musical instruments. That decree also states that those who refuse to obey must be thrown into a blazing furnace. But there are some Jews, Shadderak, Meshach, and Abednego, whom you have put in charge of the province of Babylon. They pay no attention to you, your majesty. They refuse to serve your gods and do not worship the gold statue you have set up. Then Nebuchadnezzar flew into a rage and ordered that Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego be brought before him. When they were brought in, Nebuchadnezzar said to them, Is it true, Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, that you refuse to serve my gods or to worship the gold statue that I have set up? I will give you one more chance to bow down and worship the statue I have made when you hear the sound of the musical instruments. But if you refuse, you will be thrown immediately into a blazing furnace. And then what God will be able to rescue, rescue you from my power.
SPEAKER_01Okay, so the stage is set. We've got uh a couple things I want to point out. And then we talked about this yesterday when we were just kind of hashing out ideas about this. I've always been intrigued. So I I was I don't know if I was taught this or if I've always thought it, but I always thought the statue was a statue of Nebuchadnezzar. Yes. Uh but it's not. Um, and then additionally, this really weird dimension. Um it's 90 feet tall and nine feet wide. Um so even I think about um how did it not topple over?
SPEAKER_03Right. In my brain, it's so skinny. Yeah, roach, yeah.
SPEAKER_01So there's a couple of theories. One would be um I read in one commentary, they think maybe they've Built a large pedestal and it was a smaller statue that went 90 feet up, but it was on a pedestal. So maybe some sort of big platform structure. Um, my thought was that it's probably just got, you know, like on the uh three-man swing, we got those big guy cables. Yeah, those are 70 feet poles. So we've got those guy cables. And I'm I brought this up yesterday, but I picture something like a totem pole.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Uh it's a representation. He uses the word gods. So if you look, verse 14, Nebuchadnezzar said to them, Is it true, Shadrach, Mesha, and Abednego, that you refuse to serve my my gods? Little G plural. Or to worship the gold statue I have set up. Right there tells us this statue is associated with multiple gods, the deities of Babylon.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01So we come to the first principle, which is this you've got you've got the presence of pluralism in Babylon, meaning, and you see this a lot in the ancient world, there's you there's a lot of different deities being worshipped. And with pluralism, you've got pressure applied. So what what Tim Keller calls the pressure of pluralism, which is, oh, you can worship, you're a Christian, that's cool. That's great. You can worship. I want you to, I want man, we want to practice tolerance. You want to worship Jesus, that's great. But you also have to accept and embrace all this other stuff. So it's like, let's privatize your faith.
SPEAKER_03Yes.
SPEAKER_01Worship, which we know later, that's not even allowed.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Like praying in the comfort of your home. That's right. You can't even do that. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01That's right. But that's so this is the first step. Well, just you can worship, yep. You can worship Yahweh, just do it at home. Yep. But so what they do is they come out into this area. I don't know where this place is, that door, like the plane, whatever. I like most people think it's right outside of the city proper. But he's got this massive orchestra, and then he calls all the provincial leaders to come recognize this pluralistic society. Hey, look at us. We're so progressive and modern. Everyone's way of life can be celebrated. Yep. Every deity can be celebrated. There's there's equality for all. We're going to come together, we're going to play. I'm going to play this. You know, the orchestra's going to play, and we're all going to bow down to this. So, what he's doing is he's bringing this pluralistic approach, but then he's sabotaging their faith because the first commandment is you can't worship the first two commandments have to do with uh the really the first five. You can't worship someone other than Yahweh. You definitely cannot worship a graven image that's been made by hands. And you cannot um give worship and adoration to to a false god. Yeah. And so he's he's brought them to this place where it's like you you can worship your God, but he's one of these other gods, and that's what this pole or tower represents. Yeah. And then I think also there's there's a lot of talk about maybe the inspiration for the statue came from chapter two, where he had a dream, and in that dream, Daniel interpreted the dream for him, and he saw this this statue with a head of gold, you know, shoulders of of uh silver, and then you had bronze, and then you had iron, and then clay feet.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And then the stone crashes into it that represents the gospel and the kingdom. Yes. And so the head of gold was Babylon. So some people think, oh, he's saying, no, let's galvanize the the kingdom of Babylon, and this statue sort of represents that. But the main point that I wanted to talk about in that section is it's it's interesting to me that he's saying you you just have to worship your God plus. And that's what you think about in our society.
SPEAKER_03So many parallels. Yeah. Like you can be a Christian, but don't step on my toes, or don't make me mad, or don't say I can't do something.
SPEAKER_01Accept me for who I am.
SPEAKER_03And like I even see that just the other day, I had a conversation with a girl who was really involved with her college ministry, really involved, like on leadership, good college ministry. And then she finds out that a leader, like basically someone equivalent who's on the leadership team, is actively living in a homosexual lifestyle, but is still on leadership in this college ministry. So she confronts the head guy and is like, Hey, I'm just confused. Like, I don't I want her to come and be a part of this, but why is she on leadership? She's, you know, and it eventually led to her leaving the college ministry because she they basically took the other girl's side and said, No, this is the only way. You need to not be so judgmental, this, that, and the other, and kind of bashed this girl that confronted them about it. So it's like a perfect example of that of like, no, she's still Christian, but she's also actively living in a homosexual lifestyle, and she's not wrong. You're wrong for bringing it up. So it's like kind of that. It's like, no, don't step on my toes. That's right. You know, accept everyone, accept everything. But yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it's uh the the um religious word would be syncretism, which means we put all we we make everything sync up. All these belief systems, we just make them cooperate. Um, but isn't it interesting? And like even in the story you just told, at the end of the day, the only person that gets ostracized is the believer.
SPEAKER_03It's her, is her, yeah. The Christ follower for bringing it up. And she wasn't even saying kick her out, dis disown her, never talk to her again. It was just simply like, hey, I want her to be in this ministry, but why is she on like the leadership team?
SPEAKER_01That's right. That's right.
SPEAKER_03Agreed.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and uh I think another example would be if we shift that to a lot of our listeners are businessmen and women, um, public educators, private school educators, law enforcement, first responders. We got people, you know, we know now, gosh, the Lord's blessed NSR. And we got people from literally every walk of life. So I think another, uh, a simpler parallel, not simpler, uh, another parallel to this would be the meshing of biblical, like what the Bible calls us to and how we're to live our lives, but learning how to live in the secular world and sort of play according to their rules. So, like you think of as a Christian, what are my business practices?
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
The Boldness Of Even If
SPEAKER_01How am I gonna run my business? How what you know, what can can I be Christian and work and operate in the secular world while still shining a light? That's a tension that we gotta wrestle with, you know. And yeah, um, I think sometimes we would all admit sometimes we get that right, sometimes we get it wrong. Um yeah, so uh again, it's it's stands out to me that these guys that are refusing to bow down to this, what it is, it's a refusal to break the first commandment. The first commandment. They're like, no, we're gonna worship Jesus, we're gonna worship Yahweh and nobody else. Um and we'll take we'll take the consequences. Um, which brings us to um the the next point. I'll read the next three verses and make a point here. Shadrach, Meshach, and Abendigo replied, Oh Nebuchadnezzar, we do not need to defend ourselves before you. If we are thrown into the blazing furnace, the God whom we serve is able to save us. He will rescue us from your power, your majesty. But even if he doesn't, we want to make it clear to you, your majesty, that we will never serve your gods or worship the gold statue you've set up. Bold. I mean bold. And they even call him your majesty. Yeah. They're not being rude or arrogant. That's right.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_01They're like, hey, they they so they say, here's the thing. And this is this is, I think the word for this second point is so the first point is um the the first point is the pressure. We we have to live with the pressure of living in a world that's pluralistic and says you can worship who you want to, but they don't really mean that. The second thing is I want I want to look at the the fidelity of their faith, the simplicity of their obedience, the precision of their declaration. All they're saying is, now man, we worship Jesus, we worship Yahweh, um, and uh we're willing to live with whatever consequences that brings. If it means we're thrown into the furnace, one of two things is going to happen. We'll die there, and if we die, we'll be delivered.
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_01The next thing, the next thing we experience will be the presence of Yahweh. Um, or maybe he delivers us from the flames and works a miracle.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Either way, I think the the point is uh I heard one pastor say, you realize at this point they have fireproofed themselves. They're they they're they're like, you cannot now intimidate or scare these guys because they're like, those in the fire.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01God will either deliver us out of it or he'll deliver us through it.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Which we talked about, I can't remember in what episode, but talking about like the fear of the Lord and how, you know, like we said, these guys aren't arrogant, they're not prideful, but it's just so clear they have such a reverence and fear and respect of the Lord that, like you said, they'd rather die in a fiery furnace or truly believe that the Lord will deliver them from that than bow to other gods. You know, like they fear and respect the Lord so much and hold the word of God and authority over their lives in such a way that they're like, no, we're willing to die, and or also the Lord will deliver us from this fiery furnace.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. And either one's fine.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, they're completely content. It's not like they're debating or convincing themselves.
SPEAKER_01They're not being smart, Alex. And I mean, they make it clear, Your Majesty. We want to make this clear to you. That's why I wanted to read the NLT was that phrase right there.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Um, if he doesn't deliver us, so verse 17. If we're thrown into the burning furnace, the blazing furnace, the God whom we serve is able to save us.
SPEAKER_03Yep, I like that too. Is able.
SPEAKER_01He's able.
SPEAKER_03Yep. I love that.
SPEAKER_01He wants to, he can do it.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, not yeah.
SPEAKER_01They'll rescue us from your power, your majesty. Again, not being sarcastic, but even if he doesn't, we want to make it clear to you, Your Majesty. We will never ever serve your gods or worship this statue you just put up. We're not gonna do it. Yeah, we're just not gonna do it.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_01I love it.
SPEAKER_05Me too.
SPEAKER_01It's such strength and strong like resolve and commitment. And okay, keep in mind, these are guys that were educated for three years. A university education back then was three years long, and it would be the equivalent of an undergraduate degree and a master's degree. They had been in this compressed six or seven-day a week, eight to ten-hour day education that's brainwashing us.
SPEAKER_03Yes. Yeah. I was just also about to say, too, even though they obviously have not succumbed to like the Babylonian Empire, they have every right to be bitter and angry at King Nebuchadnezzar for making them go through this. And they're still so respectful. Like you said, like they just literally went through horrible, they got castrated, they walked 700 miles, like all this horrible stuff. So they have every right in some terms to be passive aggressive or hateful towards Nebuchadnezzar, but it's even still, they just handle it with such respect, even after all that they've gone through, you know.
SPEAKER_01Or the other to to the other side of that coin, they could have just quit a long time ago and said, we'll just get with the program. 100% worship the idol, yeah. Yeah, bow down.
SPEAKER_03That's so true.
SPEAKER_01So they're neither one of those extremes. They're like, no, look, your majesty, we respect you. You're our king, we are in your service. We've proven that.
SPEAKER_03Yep.
SPEAKER_01We're not gonna bow down this idol, which is not, yeah. I love that.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, yeah. A part of my imagination, especially in the previous verse 15, because Nebuchadnezzar literally says, and then what God will be able to rescue from my power. A part of my imagination thinks, like King Nebuchadnezzar is curious, like he's wanting to see their God work, our God work, you know. And that could just be me, like no, I like that. But a part of me is like almost my imagination is thinking, what if King Nebuchadnezzar is like kind of curious and afraid to admit it, you know? And is like, all right, we'll see what your God can do, like from my power, and then obviously we see what happens in the next.
SPEAKER_01Well, I think you might be right, because look in ver look in chapter two, verse 47. This is after Daniel had interpreted his dream. The king said to Daniel, so this is before. Yeah, truly your God is the greatest of gods, the Lord over kings, a revealer of mysteries, for you have been able to reveal. So he's made he's already made this declaration, and then a couple verses later, it says the king appointed Daniel to a high position. And then verse 49, at Daniel's request, the king appointed Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego to be in charge of all of the affairs of the province of Babylon while Daniel remained in the king's court. So Daniel stays in the king's court. These three dudes are sent to the province, and they're governing like it's crazy. And he's already declared that their God is the one true God. So is he now? Yeah, to your question, is he saying, okay, no, what God's gonna you see that fire? Yeah, we're gonna throw you in that. And you're saying that there's a God that can deliver you from that? Like, is that his tone?
SPEAKER_04Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01That's a good point. I've never thought of that.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Because in my imagination, I'd gone, he's like, Do you think you're telling me you think your God, you know, maybe it's like he's a bit curious.
SPEAKER_03I like that. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Either way, pretty cool.
The Fourth Man In The Fire
Suffering Refinement And Speaking Up
SPEAKER_03All right, let me read the rest of this. Picking up in verse 19. Nebuchadnezzar was so furious with Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego that his face became distorted with rage. He commanded that the furnace be heated seven times hotter than usual. Then he ordered some of the strongest men in his army to bind Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, and throw them into the blazing furnace. So they tied them up and threw them into the furnace, fully dressed in their pants, turbans, robes, and other garments. And because the king, in his anger, had had demanded such a hot fire in the furnace, the flames killed the soldiers as they threw the three men in. So Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, securely tied, fell into the roaring flames. But suddenly, Nebuchadnezzar jumped up in amazement and exclaimed to his advisors, Didn't we tie up three men and throw them in the furnace? Yes, your majesty, we certainly did, they replied. Look, Nebuchadnezzar shouted, I see four men, unbound, walking around in the fire unharmed. And the fourth looks like a god. Then Nebuchadnezzar came as close as he could to the door of the flaming furnace and shouted, Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, servants of the most high God, come out, come here. So Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego stepped out of the fire. Then the high officers, officials, governors, advisors crowded around them, and they saw that the fire had not touched them. Not a hair on their head was cinched, and their clothing was not scorched, they didn't even smell of smoke. Then Nebuchadnezzar said, Praise to the God of Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego. He sent his angel to rescue his servants who trusted him. They defied they defied the king's command and were willing to die rather than serve or worship any god except their own god. Therefore, I make this decree. If any people, whatever their race or nation or language, speak a word against the god of Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, they will be torn limb from limb, and their houses will be turned into heaps of rubble. There is no other god who can rescue like this. Then the king promoted Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego to an even higher position in the province of Babylon.
SPEAKER_01That's so cool. It's such a crazy story. Um okay, so going into this uh section, what I love is again, we said this like their fidelity, the simplicity of their faith and obedience to the Lord. They they have what I think is the purest, most powerful. They give us such a pure and powerful picture of how you worship and walk with the Lord. In other words, they're not worshiping God because of what he's giving them, because they're willing to, it would be easy to say, oh man, I want to worship the Lord, but I mean, we finally we got it pretty good.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_01I mean, they they had a comfortable life. Yes. But they're not worshiping the Lord. I wrote down, um, they trust God no matter what. They obey and worship God no matter what. The precision of their faith is that they are obedient to God, which means and requires that they be disobedient to Babylon. It's just simple. I'm just we're just gonna obey God. Yep. And you just got this picture of the simplest faith. I'm going to obey the Lord. I'm not, if that means I'm disobeying Babylon, then fine. Yeah. If that means I'm not going with the current of what is happening in society right now, I'm fine. I'm not trying to be defiant. I'm not trying to be ugly, but the simplicity of my faith is, and this goes back, we talked uh, we talked about this, I think, in the episode with Duke and Paco, about the simple single-mindedness of our mission.
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_01That we don't get caught up in cultural movements and statements and we know what we're about. We just want to be faithful to what God's called us to. So I love the simplicity of their faith. And then what I think the principle in this last section is as a believer, we are promised suffering.
SPEAKER_04Yes.
SPEAKER_01And that suffering will either come in the form of persecution and tribulation, or suffering like cancer, loss of sight, loss of a loved one, your parents' divorce, you know, like the abandonment of a spouse, whatever, like we're all gonna suffer it to some degree. I was talking to Alani Davis this morning. She's written a poem that goes with this last section. Oh wow. And I've asked her to read it this summer when I do this message. Um, but that kid's been through the ringer.
unknownShe's got a couple of things.
SPEAKER_01She's got pots, I think it's called. And it's like she's had the roughest high school experience of that I can imagine, you know. And or that kid Sam from the church in South Georgia that comes to camp in the summer, who's just, you know, in the middle of a battle with a terrible disease. For some people, there's the physical suffering associated with illness or like the reminder that we live in a broken vessel that's decaying. But then also, we are promised the suffering of persecution. Like the Bible throughout promises us that. And I think the the point that these guys make is I'm okay with that because on the other side of this life and this suffering, this persecution, I'll be with the Lord. And so then that's fine. And so they're willing to go into the fire and suffer because, and this is where I think you see, to me, the coolest picture of God with us, of Christ with the men in the fire. It goes back to Jeremiah saying, Go to Babylon, I'll be with you. And then you got such a and in the, you know, we talk about motifs, and we're gonna do this episode on motifs. One of the motifs is fire. Throughout scripture, fire represents suffering and persecution, but it also represents refinement. So when you take gold and you refine it in the fire, it becomes more pure and more valuable. So in the life of a believer, persecution and suffering make our faith more valuable. Yes. They refine us as Christ followers.
SPEAKER_03I think two things. The first thing is when it talks about them walking around the fire, I'm like dying to know what that was like. Like they're in this fire. Because, you know, like even at a campfire, I'm so enamored with the fire, I'm just staring into it, you know. So imagine being in it and just chilling, like walking around, like not getting burned, not even smelling like smoke. That all of that is just so cool. But then also something that also sticks out to me, and this is kind of jumping back up to 15 and 16. I think something that we as believers can also strive to learn from this is knowing when to speak up and when to stay quiet. Cause I think obviously, like you said, they had been in this Babylonian Empire for three, four years at this point. And I'm sure there were other times that were not documented that they spoke up or, you know. But I think it's so important to just know when like what matters to speak up on and stand on what you believe and what matters of like, okay, who they voted for, it doesn't matter. I'm not gonna get in a argument with my coworker about if they voted for Trump or bought it. Like, you know, that's good, you know, but it's like the stuff that matters and the stuff that they not even, yes, it obviously it shows that they were convicted of this, but it's they were convicted of it because they know they knew scripture, they knew the commandments, they knew what was commanded of them, and so they stood by that and spoke up on that. So I think that's important for us as believers, you know, working in a secular environment or just. you know, living in this world when to speak up and when to let things slide and not let your ruffle your feathers get ruffled by.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that makes good sense. Yeah. That makes really good sense. I like that. I like that point. Cause I think we do pick the wrong battle sometimes.
SPEAKER_03100%.
SPEAKER_01And then we scream.
SPEAKER_03Yes.
SPEAKER_01So loud.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Fighting for our thing. Yeah. Um they uh it's interesting um when it describes they tied them up and threw them into the furnace fully dressed in their pants turbans robes and other garments. I've so I heat my house with fire. And when I open that wood heater, the wood stove and I and I'm and I'm putting a piece of wood in there sometimes the the hot coals are so thick that it it wants to roll out. So uh because there so I bought the wrong wood stove. If I had it to do over again every wood stove I've ever owned had big double front doors and you put the wood in long ways this one is is wide across the front and you and it's got a door that swings open and then you're putting the wood in long ways. Well it wants to roll out when it gets piled up. So I got to put my hand in there and it's like I don't know I my hands stay leathery and singed all winter long. And it's like eventually they kind of toughen up.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_01But every time I do it I think of this story. Yeah because those guys that threw them in died died. Yeah they died. I mean how hot is that to melt somebody we I remember when uh little and I were building the lake when we were working at TMI and we cleared off like seven acres of land and uh her granddad uh came and helped me I think I talked about this in the book he came and he was he had worked in land excav clearing and like excavation we dug this massive pit into the side of a hill so at this really steep hill we dug a pit going into the hill where you could walk into the end of it and barely go down a little bit but then the back wall of the pit was like 20 feet tall. So you can imagine a steep hill like this and then and then we'd we cut into the bank. So if you know it's like this 20 foot deep pit. And so from the top end of it we would take a bulldozer and we would roll stumps and trees and we kept that fire going for like six weeks. Wow it burned day and night and we were burning stumps of trees that were way bigger than I could put my arms around and that fire was so hot you couldn't get even like when you're in a dozer bulldozer and you're pushing wood into that pit you feel you like push it and then hurry and back up. Yeah and I and I think those guys burned up yeah they cooked yeah that's how hot that fire was yeah and I don't know what I'm I'm also curious about like what the furnace looked like me too. Was it a pit in the ground like that? It had to be it had to be some sort of a big pit where they were just brush firing because I don't know I don't know if for everybody to be able to see it, you know.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01But those guys burned alive.
SPEAKER_03That is very crazy to think about.
SPEAKER_01And I can't and Jesus was in there with them.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. And like going back to the beyond the flannel graph like for all my life obviously this Bible stories like this have been taught to me but almost in the way of a Bible story. You know like very whimsical and it's like you hear this stuff and still in my brain I'm like this actually happened like this is real. You know what I mean? Because it's just so bizarre you know it's crazy.
Four Pressures Christians Face Today
SPEAKER_01It is let me let me condense it down to three talking points or three points of application that folks might you know be encouraged with this week the first one is when you talk about the pressure of pluralism that we face in society. You can be Christian tolerance for all people although we know that's not true. Yeah um there's four there's four places that pressure is going to come from the first one is authority. So you got the king or the government pressuring them for their faith. The first seven verses you read in those first seven verses six times it makes some mention of like the authority of the king yeah that references the king and so sometimes authority the pressure is going to come from authority it could be statutes laws like uh you can't you can't counsel a teenager who's trying to find their sexual identity you can't counsel that counsel them you can't give them instruction or counsel that that aligns with the biblical interpretation of sexuality and gender um that would be pressure from the king yeah um or we're gonna take your taxpayer dollars and we're gonna fund abortions um sometimes pressure comes from you can worship you go to church on Sunday worship God but we're using your taxpayer dollars to teach students in the public school system things that are contrary to the Bible like sometimes the pressure of pluralism comes from the authorities number two sometimes it comes from the pressure to con just to conform it's just the public opinion the court of public opinion how many times have you heard somebody say I don't want to be on the wrong side of history like what in the world that's the dumbest thing that is literally if I hear one more person say that that's the dumbest thing like what does that even mean the wrong side of history every minute of history there's a right and a wrong going on there's a war of good and evil there's dark and light like it's just crazy the idea that you have to conform to a public ideology or ideal so that you can be accepted you know is crazy. So sometimes the pressure comes from just public conformity. You can worship Jesus but um the third one um almost always the pressure will either come from or build into malice hatred. You think about how Jesus said in John 15 the world hey listen guys the world hates me they're going to hate you and we see that it is crazy that y'all's generation um you JB and then the guys behind the cameras y'all's generation is already you're we we were talking before we turned the cameras on about 9-11 for the next 10 years after 9-11 if you were a Muslim in this country you walked on eggshells. Yes sir no sir you were polite you were because people were like very suspicious we're at a point now where Islam is being celebrated in most um big cities like our governor in the state of North Carolina a state that is if you're gonna talk politics it is red from tip to tip except for the big cities the cities yeah our governor passed an executive order last month celebrating Ramadan and I'm gonna read to you what it said. This is Governor Josh Stein North Carolina governor governor on February 26th so less than two months ago he uh signed an executive order that says this the governor of the state of North Carolina a proclamation this sounds like some Nebuchadnezzar garbage whereas North Carolina is home to more than 130,000 Muslims and whereas Muslim Americans are one of the most racially diverse groups in the U.S. comprising African Americans, Asians, Arabs, Africans, Latinos, and Caucasians. And whereas Islamic traditions and values serve as an inspiration and reflection for the millions of individuals who look to the teachings of Islam for guidance okay to be clear if you read the Quran what you will find is you are to behead people that reject its teaching.
SPEAKER_05Yes.
SPEAKER_01We're gonna look to that for guidance. Yep that's just that's indisputable whereas Ramadan the ninth month in the Islamic calendar is celebrated annually by millions of Muslims throughout the United States and two billion Muslims worldwide. And whereas Ramadan is celebrated by Muslims as a month of fasting community service and reflection and whereas during the month of Ramadan the Muslim community across North Carolina and the country will collectively celebrate the revelation of the Quran and its teaching and whereas we're almost done on behalf of the state of North Carolina I am proud to recognize the contributions of Muslim Americans now therefore I, Josh Stein, governor of the state of North Carolina, do hereby proclaim February 17th through March 19th as Ramadan in North Carolina and commend its observance to all residents. One letter from the word command he would have written command I believe with all my heart but he can't write that so he writes a command. So he is saying state of North Carolina will now by governor's order gubernatorial order celebrate Ramadan.
SPEAKER_03Yeah it is like scarily similar to King Nebuchadnezzar commanding everyone to bow down to his statue.
SPEAKER_01He said I commend you yeah yeah so that to say sometimes the pressure comes from um malice and it's and I bring that up on on that point to say it's interesting to me how tolerant everyone in the secular world is to every belief system except Christianity. I agree yeah and number four the last thing um that we associate with the pressures of pluralism is intimidation you'll lose your business yep you'll you'll get canceled you'll lose your position on the soccer team you'll lose your position you won't you'll get passed over for uh promotions it you know whether it's DEI or um uh the the LGBTQ movement or just some liberal progressive non-Christian yeah uh when I say liberal progressive I'm not talking political I'm talking um in terms of the approach to scripture yeah it's it's hard uh to distinguish now because when you say liberal people think liberal politics for me when I use the word liberal I mean a liberal or progressive interpretation of scripture where you go well the word of God you know the Bible it's it's not all like you have to adapt it to culture and you have to make a pick and choose that's right pick and choose and so um sometimes uh what we're gonna face is intimidation that says if you don't do it our way there's gonna be consequences and just being completely like honest and clear I would say in some ways it's easier to just fall into it.
SPEAKER_03It's easier to just like these guys it would have been easier for them to just say you know what we've been in Babylon like you said we'll just hand over. It is like even now it's easier for me to post what I want or please the crowd or like whatever but we know like as believers we know it's easier now maybe but like scripture is clear that it's not it's not gonna be easier in hell you know like that's right it's gonna suck in hell.
SPEAKER_01That's a good point.
SPEAKER_03But I think sometimes like especially in America we've bought into the slide of like I'm a believer now everything's gonna be sunshine and rainbows. I'm a believer now Jesus is gonna save me from all this but like you said in John he says the world hated me the world is gonna hate you because of me. So I think like knowing that and we've talked I feel like we've talked about this in so many different episodes but it just goes back to being in the world but not being of the world.
Summer Preview And Final Charge
SPEAKER_01Like knowing that the world is gonna hate you but not living in a way that's so defensive and so um argumentative or arrogant but just like know scripture hide scripture in your heart know that scripture has authority over your life and live in that know when to speak up know when to shut up and like just I don't know like to me this story is so like you said their humbleness and their simple faith is so encouraging to look at um can I add one thing to what you're saying about hiding the scripture in your heart I think that's so it's it cannot be overemphasized because I think let's okay let's say that the process of moving these boys from Jerusalem to Babylon the 750 miles let's say that took a year to move them heal get them healed up assimilated into day-to-day life let's say then three years into Babylonian university um let's say an appointment to the provincial leadership or whatever there seems to have been some time lapse between Daniel one and Daniel three let's say they've been there 10 years let's say they're now like 26 27 year old guys um the word of God was hidden in their hearts because when they were in Jerusalem they were taught the prophecies of Jeremiah yeah that's a good point one of the word one of the biblical books they would have learned would have been Jeremiah and one would have been Isaiah Jeremiah made a prophecy where he said go into Babylon we talked about this earlier when he said go to Babylon I'll be with you assimilate they I think they had that hidden in their heart. Yeah because that's a good point their scripture would have been taken they didn't have scripture yeah it was hidden in their hearts yeah that's a good point yeah so the importance of that was something um on your recent adventure that we're gonna be talking about soon that was something I prayed for you at least every day and a lot of times I probably prayed this for you five times in a day where I would the Lord would bring you to my mind and I would go Lord whatever JB's dealing with right now put scripture in her mind. Help her to remember something that maybe she didn't actually memorize but she's so familiar with it and you call it to her mind. You know and I remember reading a book that I highly highly recommend called uh In God's Underground It's the story of the guy that started Voice of the Martyrs and then he he wrote a shorter version called Tortured for Christ. His name's Richard Wernbrand and then he wrote uh he wrote that in like 48 hours because he was getting ready to present this was in like the 1970s he was going to go before the U.S. Congress or 80s and present persecution that was taking place in the Soviet Union. He had been terribly persecuted he spent 13 years in prison beaten starved and so in the in the U.S. you can look this up you can see this in the before the U.S. Congress like a congressional committee hearing he took his suit off took his shirt off and showed him the scars on his back his back's just lacerated with scars. He was in his 70s and he was speaking to the persecution that communism brings yeah and this is what your generation a lot of kids in your generation don't understand. They're promoting socialism socialism socialism socialism always leads to communism which always leads to you cannot worship any deity. There is no it's an atheistic worldview. And so the state is your God that's where it always goes I don't care what anybody tells you in any classroom oh there but look how Sweden does socialism. Okay let's don't talk about Sweden. Let's talk about what history has proven not just in the last 50 years but in like throughout history that when a when when you have a state that operates as a deity then their commands and decrees become the Bible or the holy writings that you have to live your life according to so Richard Wernbrand comes and he speaks before Congress he he wrote this book Tortured for Christ where he told a story he went back later and wrote a lengthier more descriptive version of it called In God's underground I think is what it's called but in that he talked about how for 13 years he's in a gulag like a Russian prison underground starving he said they would be starving to death and they would bring prostitutes in to sexually tempt them he said when you're in a state of starvation you become heightened to sexual temptation. It's crazy and he said they would be he said I can remember being in these uh you know in these underground damp dark cells and he's down to like 103 pounds and they bring prostitutes and they talk to these men and sexually tempt them. And he said I I just would would uh and I don't remember if this was in the book or something I uh heard him talking about um but he said you just close your eyes I would lock myself down and begin to quote scripture out loud and that's when I realized that was when my early that was one of the first books I read as a young Christian I'm like I got to memorize scripture I guarantee you these dudes were constantly leaning into the scripture. Yeah and that's what carried them through yeah 100% so I think if I was going to sum it all up I'd say this is a story about worship and deliverance worship and deliverance the way they worship the Lord is so clear and God delivers them and they were fine being delivered through the fire if not from the fire. Very true and that's what happened they got delivered they were saying maybe he'll deliver us from this maybe he'll deliver us through this and he basically didn't do either yeah he formed he create he did a miracle yeah oh that's a good point too because they're like well maybe God will keep us from going into the fire or maybe he'll bring us to heaven we'll die in the fire but we'll be with the Lord. Nope he put him in the fire and didn't and performed a miracle yeah and went in the fire with them. Pretty cool.
SPEAKER_03Yeah well sweet we're looking forward to summer to talk about all these different stories if you're coming we're excited to see you're excited to have you um but yeah you got anything else I don't I'm I'm uh working on finishing this this will be a message that'll be a lot more streamlined a lot more conduct uh condensed but then I'm also doing one on Joshua that I'm excited about where right before they go into Jericho the Lord comes and meets with him and I'm pretty stoked about that.
SPEAKER_01Yeah um and I'm excited about your talk. Yeah yeah I'm excited too it's gonna be good it's gonna be a good summer it's gonna be a great summer yeah and that's what's next. I know I mean literally somebody asked me the other day um it's like three weeks it's three weeks training starts in three weeks it's just crazy I had somebody the other day ask me hey you and Hank come out and go turkey hunting or out in the eastern part of the state and I was like man I would love to the reason I don't turkey hunt is because right now I got one thing on my mind.
SPEAKER_03Yep I was me and my roommate Alison Yates who also works here at Snowbird um we were talking about summer she's the one who told me it's three weeks away and I was like oh that's crazy but I was like sometimes I think I'll be like man like summer comes and goes it goes by in a flash and I didn't even get to go to the beach one time. And you know what I don't care you know I feel like sometimes I'll be like man I didn't get to lounge by the pool but I don't care yeah for sure it's so yeah it consumes every part of your day just planning for it thinking about it um it's exciting.
SPEAKER_00Yeah um and uh it's gonna be a good summer yeah yeah thank y'all thanks for listening to No Sanity Required please take a moment to subscribe and leave a rating it really helps. Visit us at swooutfitters.com to see all of our programming and resources and we'll see you next week on No Sanity Required
