A Biblical Response to Immigration

In this episode, Brody will approach the immigration debate by asking a better question: what does the Bible actually require of us? We clarify biblical categories, separate compassion from chaos, and explore how justice, order, and human dignity fit together. With Old and New Testament insight, we move past slogans toward faithful, practical ways to love our neighbors lawfully, wisely, and with the gospel at the center.

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Chapters

• 0:08 Setting The Aim: Bible Over Politics
• 3:00 America Is Not Ancient Israel
• 7:55 Common Sense Amid Cultural Noise
• 12:45 Leviticus 19 And Fair Treatment
• 18:00 Three Categories In Israel Explained
• 26:30 Church As The Better Parallel
• 30:50 Defining Refugees And Immigrants
• 38:45 Borders, Safety, And Due Process

Transcript

SPEAKER_00: 0:08

Welcome to No Sanity Required from the Ministry of Snowbird Wilderness Outfitters, a podcast about the Bible, culture, and stories from around the globe.

SPEAKER_01: 0:19

Hey, this is a special episode, I guess a bonus episode of No Sanity Required. And we're going to jump right into the topic or the discussion of immigration. And before you turn this off or start uh drawing a conclusion, I'm not going to take a political side here. I want what I want to do is hopefully shed light on what the Bible teaches about immigration. What is the the Bible does speak to it, I think. Specifically, it speaks to it in the context of ancient Israelite society. So uh societal life and government oversight, maybe you would say, in ancient Israel, I think addresses it. Um, but I think it's important that we don't under or over apply what God teaches to ancient Israel as it relates to America. We are not Israel. We are not ancient Israel for sure. Ancient Israel was what's called a theocracy, which means God was their king, their ruler, their government. He was also the source of their affection and worship. Um in America, we are a melting pot not only of peoples, but of religious backgrounds. We have religious liberties and freedoms and and people from so many different um faiths live and and interact on a daily basis in America. We're not a theocracy. We're a republic. We're a constitutional republic. Or as some people would maybe just say, we're a democracy. So we do things by voting, we have representation in government. Um we're a government by the people for the people. Um we're a government set up so that folks can pursue life, liberty, and and uh and happiness. And and we're a government that says we believe that all people are created equal. Um, and that that that they are endowed by their creator with certain inalienable rights. And so there are rights that people have just by being human. There are laws that then determine how people are to live and then how those rights are protected, and then how you can lose some of those rights. And so I want to try to compare America to ancient Israel and then take what we can out of what God gave them as laws to function as it relates to immigration, um, refugees, things like that. Um, so don't think I'm gonna get into political weeds here. I'm not. I'm just gonna speak with clarity from the scripture. I do want to give some common sense thoughts on how we might ought to respond to things that are going on in a time like today where the society at large is kind of divided over this issue of immigration. And it's it's not honestly, it's gonna be a flash in the pan. It's gonna come and go. The the stuff that's going on in Minneapolis, it's gonna be like here today, gone tomorrow. However, we need to address it because we want to help people think rightly about these things and hopefully bring a fresh perspective. Over the last few days, I've listened to a lot of different commentary on this. Some of it has been super conservative, some of it's been progressive and liberal. I don't listen to a lot of progressive and liberal commentary because I just it doesn't make sense, it's nonsense. Um, people just sort of shouting and and it's just nonsense. But then the conservative side, if they go too far in that direction, it also becomes nonsense. And so how should a Christian respond? What should our stance be on immigration? How should we treat people that are living in our nation who are from another nation? Um, what's that look like? And then the main thing I want to do is shed some biblical clarity because I've seen people, I'm not on social media, but Snowbird is, and I follow Snowbird socials through our media team and I get updates and screenshots. And I saw someone, I've seen several former Snowbird employees um comment on this, and I think they're it's not that they're misinformed, they're just choosing to misinterpret the scripture. And I would start this off by warning you not to take the word of God and apply it in a manner that God never intended for it to be applied. I got some sermon notes I'm gonna pull out of my Bible and set aside here from the other day. Um I would encourage you not to take the word of God and make it mean something that God never intended for it to mean. Um, and so I've seen people quote and post on their social media things like Leviticus 19, 33 and 34. And I want to bring some clarity to that. What is what does the Bible say in ancient Israel and how do we apply it to modern America? And then the other reason that I want to do this is my my daughters and I, my all three of my daughters, um, we sat around and had a conversation about this the other day because one of my girls who's in college, who's been on here before lately, was invited by her campus ministry to take part in an ICE protest. And she said, I she said, this doesn't feel right. Um doesn't feel like the way I should be spending my time or my my ministry energy. And um I'm like, yeah, I think you're right. To to to protest a three-letter government law enforcement agency that's not even there's not even a presence in your college town to begin with, it does it's nonsense. It's just nonsense. If you want, and what we did is we talked about if you want to help foreign nationals or immigrants or refugees, there's opportunity for that. Uh in Clarkston, Georgia, there's 400,000 international, a lot of them came as refugees living in that that area right outside of Atlanta. Memphis, Tennessee, there's a huge refugee community. There are refugee communities where you can go and serve and love. My oldest daughter, when she was in college in Wake Forest, um, she there was a there was an apartment complex that housed refugees from, I believe, Afghanistan. Um, and it's awesome, man. She went down there and and took part in their after-school tutoring program for those kids. There's things you can do that are far more productive than screaming and blowing whistles at police officers in the middle of a street. You know, it's just, I think it's a lot, there's a lot of nonsense. And so when people say, you gotta speak up, well, yeah, speak up. Go tutor in a tutoring center that that that helps refugees and and uh the children of immigrants, or help a single mom who's here with four or five kids, like one in our community, that I don't know what her I don't know what her status is when in terms of is she here legally or not. I don't know. We just try to we just try to be good to her and help her and and so I think there's productive ways Christians can get involved without misappropriating scripture and quoting Bible verses that don't mean what you think they mean or or you're trying to make them mean something they don't mean. So let's just walk through what the Bible taught in ancient Israel about immigration. Let's do that, okay? Let's start there. Let's begin with Leviticus. Uh, I want to look at Leviticus 19, 33, and 34. Now, this is important because people, I I have known that I've I've seen people posting this on their socials. Um Leviticus 19, 33, it says, do not take advantage of foreigners who live among you in your land. Okay. Here's a principle that Christians can live by, right? Don't take advantage of foreigners that live in your land. Now, what what would that look like? I think taking advantage of foreigners would be uh maybe a practical, tangible thought there would be um not paying them a fair wage for work that you that you hire them for. Uh I know a story of a man that was um that had a couple of ladies working in his business and he was taking advantage of them sexually. He was paying them less than minimum wage, and they were just kind of stuck here. And that that is that's a worst case scenario, maybe, you know, making them do things that are illegal. Um, but a best case scenario would be not paying them a fair wage, not giving them good housing, um, not treating them like a neighbor. The Bible teaches over and over and over that as Christians, there's a way we should treat others. Jesus says, do unto others as you would have them to do unto you, or treat others the way you would like to be treated. He also condenses all of the law, the Ten Commandments, and the 600 plus um laws and statutes in Israel. He condenses them into two instructions, two commands. Love God and love others. Love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength, and love others and do it well. So the first line in Leviticus 1933 says, Don't don't mistreat foreigners that are living in your land. So in ancient Israel, um there was there was an expectation that you would show hospitality. Let's let's word it that way. Show hospitality to foreigners. So that's the instruction. Does it say anything about legal versus illegal immigration? And we'll get into what foreigners means. And there's three different categories of internationals, uh, three different categories of people living in Israel. Don't take advantage of foreigners who live among you in your land. Treat them like native-born Israelites and love them as you love yourself. Remember that you were once foreigners living in the land of Egypt. I'm the Lord your God. So he's basically saying, hey, when people live among you in Israel, you need to treat them the way you want to be treated. Remember that you were once foreigners in Egypt and be good to these people. Treat them the way you would treat citizens and neighbors. They're not, in other words, they're not second-class citizens. They are human beings created in the image of God. So, first and foremost, at the heart of our immigration mindset or policy or whatever, we want to treat people with God-given dignity as image bearers of God. Okay? People are image bearers of God. We need to treat them as such. And show them love and compassion. Um, now, if that person is a criminal or they've broken the law, then we want the law to be enforced. And that seems straightforward enough, right? But then Numbers 15, now we get some clarity on what a foreigner is or sort of categories within Israel as it relates to the sacrificial system. Each sacrifice of a, this is Numbers 15, verse 11. And you're going to notice he's going to give three categories of foreigners. Or I'm sorry, three categories of people living in Israel. So in Israel, you fall into one of these three categories. Each sacrifice of a bull, ram, lamb, or young goat should be prepared in this way. Follow these instructions with each offering you present. So he's just giving them instructions on how to make sacrificial offerings. All of you native-born Israelites must follow these instructions when you offer a special gift as a pleasing aroma to the Lord. So he says, okay, Israelites who are native-born, you follow these instructions. And so that's the first category. Native-born Israelites. What is a native-born Israelite? All of the this is where we don't, this is where we're not like Israel. All of native Israel descended from Jacob. So Jacob had 12 sons. He had there was there were 13 names because Joseph had two sons. So Jacob had 12 sons. One of them was Joseph. Joseph had two sons, and they represented Joseph in the tribe clan system of Israel. So 12 sons, one of them replaced with his two sons. That makes 13. So there's 13 names, and everyone in Israel descended from one, everyone who's a native-born Israelite descended from one of those 13 people. We don't have that in America. I know that within my own bloodline, I can trace, I can trace the Holloway bloodline and my mom's side of the family, which I know more about. But my if I just take my last name, Holloway, and I trace that, I can trace that bloodline back to almost 100 years before America was a country. Not far from here, just oh just over the mountain, directly behind me, the Snowbird Mountain Range is right back here. Over that mountain and a couple more mountains is Blunt County, Tennessee. And I can trace holloways to that region in the late 1600s. Where'd they come from? Oh gosh, I'm not sure. I think some of them came from England, some of them came from uh um, and uh and the holloways I think came from England. I think they were English. But then I have more definition on my mom's side where I know where a lot of them came from Scotland and a lot of them came from England, and then I can trace my mom's, my dad's mom's side, and then a bunch of them came from uh Germany, or maybe it was my dad's dad, maybe those the Holloways were from. I don't remember. Anyway, it's a hodgepodge. There's no native-born descendants of like I don't have we don't all go back to one dude that was the the founding father of a nation. You know what I mean? I I'm not a direct descendant of George Washington, and he's not the guy anyway. You know, we don't, in other words, what I'm saying is we don't have a direct comparison. A native-born Israelite was a descendant of one of the tribes. That's the first category of Jew. The second category, and so he's saying you guys have to worship in the sacrificial system as I've given it to Moses and Aaron. There's a there's a system in this theocracy where you worship accordingly. Okay. Next, he says, so he says to the native-born Israelite, and then he says, and if any foreigners visit you or live among you and want to present a special gift as a pleasing aroma to the Lord, they must follow the same procedures. Native-born Israelites and foreigners are equal before the Lord and are subject to the same decrees. So, okay, now we get some clarity. He he uses two terms there for foreigners. One is a foreigner who's a sojourner, one is a foreigner who's an alien. And I don't want to get into the Hebrew vernacular, but in the Hebrew language, we get some clarity to this. The second category of person living of a person living in Israel was a foreigner who had assimilated into Israelite culture. Here's where this is different from American culture. In America, we have Irish Americans, Italian Americans, Spanish Americans, Mexican Americans, African Americans. We, we, we tag the source of our ancestry, whether that's a generation ago or 10 generations ago. Native American. In Israel, you had Israelites. Once you, if you were a foreigner, so let's say you're Ruth or Rahab, Ruth was from Moab, Rahab was from Jericho, she was a Canaanite. When you assimilated into Israel, you abandoned your old identity. You were no longer a descendant of Moab. You became a, you, you married in or you were adopted in or you assimilated by citizenship into the Israelite people, and you became fully Israelite and you abandoned your old identity. This included for men, for males, they had to be circumcised, which was a covenantal sign of assimilation into Israelite life. So you became a covenant member of Israel. You're no longer a Moabite. You're simply an Israelite. So a foreigner that became what that would look like if we were gonna compare that to America, we would have to do away with the hyphenated nomenclature. There's no more African American, Irish American, Native American. We're simply Americans, okay? Now, I'm not making a social or political statement there. I'm saying, I'm not saying we should do away with that in America. That's you can have an opinion about that or not. I don't have a problem with people referring to themselves as African American, Native American, Irish American, Italian American, whatever. There's there's something to me that's kind of cool about that family lineage pride or whatever, as long as it's kept in check. And the greater identifying characteristic is the word American, that we are part of a society where we're living together, working together. We adhere to the laws of the Constitution of the United States. Um, but I'm fine with people hyphenating. I'm saying in Israel they didn't do that. I'm just saying in Israel they didn't do that. You assimilate it in. With that full inclusion came all the benefits of citizenship. You got to worship in the temple. In this passage, you get to take part in the sacrificial system. Everything was the same. The third category would be a foreigner living temporarily or a foreigner living as a foreigner in Israel. So this might be a refugee. Um, the the I'll tell you the one that comes to mind, the people of Gibeah. If you go back and you study the book of Joshua after they conquered Jericho and Ai, um, Ai, there's a city called Ai, literally spelled AI. It's pretty funny. Um, but Joshua had led the people to conquer that city. The people of a neighboring group of uh, the Gibeonites, I think is what they were called, a neighboring tribe or a neighboring um people group came and through deception, they eventually formed an alliance with Joshua where they got to live among the Israelites as foreign nationals, but they did not receive the benefits of citizenship. There was not inclusion into citizenship, but there was fair labor and fair wages provided. What they did not get to do is worship in the temple, um, take part in certain covenantal um benefits of the of the community. And so uh there's an example of the third category of people living in Israel. Now, to be honest, we would if we were going to compare where we are today in America with ancient Israel, the comparison would be better suited to the church. So, how does the church treat born-again Christians who are have been members of the church for a long time? Maybe you're born and raised in the in the family of God and you became a Christian at a young age, um, and then people that are newer converts and members, and that second category would be like the first category would be I'm in that category. My parents were professing Christians, my grandparents were professing Christians. I've only ever been part of a professing Christian family. The second category would be uh who a guy like we had recently on here, Josh Haskell, who came from the Mormon church. He came from a Mormon background. Josh Haskell assimilated into the um the covenant community through the blood of Jesus. He's a born-again Christian. He's not a Mormon hyphen Christian. He's not, he's not that. He's simply a Christian. He is, he is, the old Josh is dead. He's assimilated into the body of Christ. The third category would be an agnostic, a seeker, an atheist, a Mormon who's attending, checking, checking this thing out, coming to church and trying to figure out okay, I'm searching, I'm seeking a Muslim that's attending services. At Red Oak Church or at your local church, there are certain things that person is not allowed to take part in. For instance, the Lord's Supper. A non-converted person can attend our church, but but we ask them to abstain from the Lord's Supper. There are certain aspects of membership that within the covenant community that you don't get to take part in. That's a better parallel to ancient Israel's practices of assimilation of sojourners and aliens or immigrants and refugees. Okay. Now, let me give a little bit of clarity on the difference then, because there's so many words that get used. In the Bible, you've got foreigners, refugees, um, immigrants, aliens. In our society or culture, we say in language, we say foreign nationals, immigrants, refugees, foreigners. Some of the same words, but some we don't use like we don't use the word sojourner. We don't sometimes we use the word alien, but only as it applies to an illegal alien. So there's there's just it's important that we sort of define some terms, okay? In our culture, in our day, I would distinguish between a refugee and an immigrant, okay? Refugee immigrant. What's the difference? A refugee is typically someone who has been displaced or has been removed from their homeland or who has been driven from their homeland. And one of the distinguishing characteristics of most refugees is they'd really like to go home. They want to go back home. You go to a refugee community in northern Uganda where Kilby and Greg live and serve. And most of those Sudanese and South Sudanese refugees, they long to go back to Sudan or South Sudan, but they've been displaced. But they long for their homeland. This was like kind of like what was going on with the Israelites in Egypt, even though they didn't yet have their homeland. In our country, we have programs for refugees. Again, places like Memphis, Minneapolis was a was a was a localized uh refugee center for Somalis and people from the Horn of Africa. That's kind of gone off the rails. Um Memphis, Atlanta. There's other places. Some places in the Midwest. And so a refugee would be someone that we're trying to take care of because they've been displaced from their homeland. An immigrant is someone who has left their homeland intentionally and is seeking better opportunity, better jobs. Now, some immigrants have fled their homeland because they're wanted by the law, just to be honest. And so you might have an immigrant who has left a country to go to another country because they're wanted in their country of residency or the country of their uh citizenship. But then you got some immigrants that have gone to a new country for a better start. I think of my sister Rocky, Raquel, Zach's wife, um, if you're familiar with the snowboard community and family. My sister um Rocky was adopted by my mom and and uh stepdad. She was she was an extended family member by marriage to my stepdad. Um but she her biological father is Mexican. Her biological mother is American by birth and citizenship. Rocky has a has an uncle who's Mexican who came to America via um the process of immigration, became a citizen, all that stuff. Um, and he's very successful and very wealthy, owns a chain of restaurants, is very successful. So there's immigration where someone seeks a better life, and and if they um go about it the most effective way, they could actually, you know, really, really um improve their living situation. My neighbor that I have a neighbor, I think I mentioned him earlier, but I have a neighbor that is one of the hardest working guys I know. He's got a crew of guys that work for him. He's he's Mexican American dude, he's from Mexico. And um, man, he that guy's made a good living. And he's just a blue-collar construction guy, does drywall, does, has a has one mowing and landscaping crew, has a drywall crew, does remodels, employs six or eight guys, and and they're all making a good living. Opportunity. So some immigrants leave and flee to or leave and don't flee, they just leave and go to another land, another country for better opportunities. Katie, who was living in Iceland, had a lot of immigrants there from they were refugees or they were people that had fled Venezuela and Iran, and they fled there because they feared for their lives. So it's complicated. You can't just say, we got to open the borders and welcome everyone. Because in Athens, Georgia, there is a law that is on the books because of an assault, a rape and murder that happened of a young lady who was out jogging. You might remember this just a few years ago. She was out jogging, she was running, exercising, and an illegal immigrant, someone who was here illegally, abducted her, raped her, and killed her. Um, we also know that open borders are not, are not, there's not a biblical example of open borders in the sense that many people want to open the borders. So there's a process. Last thing I'll say about that as it relates to us in America. There's a program, I think it's called the H2A program. That check me on that. I might be, that might be the wrong nomenclature. Uh, but if memory serves me correctly, there's a program, and we have a board member that participates in this where their company, they bring um workers in, they provide housing and they provide a fair wage for them. There's certain requirements for them to bring these people into work, and these people are able to take that opportunity and pursue a better life in America through these worker programs. So we have programs in place. All that to say our government has a way for refugees to flee and get out of bad situations. No country, I don't think any country in the world has done more in the international refugee community than America. Um, and then, and and I might be may maybe a country has, I, but I don't think so. From what I've studied and researched, been able to figure out. Also, um, when it comes to immigration into this country, there is a path to becoming a citizen that you just got to follow. Uh, and and to personalize this, the last thing I'll say about this is my two youngest children, we brought them into this country on green cards from another country. They were adopted, they're born in another country. We couldn't even adopt them in that country. I will just say this. Um, I had a long conversation with my daughters the other night. I mentioned this. And my youngest daughter, who is adopted and was born in Africa, she said, Hey, one of my friends at school got deported with her family. Well, I know some things about that family and the situation, and I'm not surprised that that happened. But she said, Is that bad? Is that good? There was maybe some concern. Could that happen? When I started to explain to her what immigration is, she said, could that happen to me? And I explained to her, no, because we went through the proper channels. We went through immigration, we got your green card. When you turn 18, we will start the naturalization process, which takes about five years, and we'll get you your citizenship. It's a process. You just got to go through it. And someone might say, Well, what about people that don't have the means to do that? I would just say there are ways to do it. You got to take the initiative and do the hard work. And we, there is a process. The the alternative is not to open the borders and let anybody and everybody that wants to to come in. That there's I'm saying there's not a biblical example of that. The cities and and and um there were cities in Israel, the large cities in Israel were fortified with military protection and people weren't allowed to just come into those cities. There was there was a common sense approach to that. And these three different categories of people lived in Israel. Now, Leviticus 19, 33 and 34. God instructed the Israelites to show hospitality and treat people justly and fairly. But there's also laws on the books that if a person committed certain crimes, they was, you know, they were put to death. If a foreigner came to Israel and killed somebody, they were stoned to death in the street. Okay, so we have to just, if we're going to apply the scripture, we've got to apply it the way God intends for it to be applied. And then um jump into the New Testament. The New Testament does give us instruction, not as much as we might like. Um, but when the Bible speaks, it speaks. Just because it doesn't say it a hundred times doesn't mean saying it one time isn't enough. The two passages the Bible in the New Testament speaks to something along these lines is Romans 13, particularly verse 8, that says, but but Romans 13, the first half of that chapter says God institutes governments, and government has a responsibility to God to enforce laws and to even put evildoers to the sword. And then 1 Peter 2, Peter um addresses obeying, honoring, and fearing the emperor and respecting the laws of the land. Both Peter and Paul write this, and both Peter and Paul are ultimately executed by the very emperors they're saying that we should respect and honor. And I would say this they're executed for preaching the gospel. So what do we make of that? If we're gonna break laws, um the it's gonna be laws that contradict what God's given us in scripture when it comes to proclamation and spreading of the gospel. So if I'm if I'm gonna if I'm gonna push back against something that's gonna cost me, it's typically gonna be I'm gonna proclaim the gospel even when you tell me I can't. I'm gonna fight for the unborn um in every means necessary within the parameters of of law and and I'm gonna utilize the gifts of free speech. But free speech, as it's protected in our Constitution, has parameters. So for instance, when a group of protesters led by Don Lemon stormed a church in Minneapolis a couple weeks ago, um, free speech doesn't protect that. A house of worship or a private residence is not a place where you can go and exert your will and your voice. And I will tell you this, we met at our church. If if someone does that at our church, there will be an immediate physical reaction. We'll throw them out of our church. If we got to break noses and crack jaws, I'm just telling you, we'll do it. Because I'm a shepherd and I'm surrounded by a group of shepherds, and the men in our church will protect the women and children in our church. And I I we will not tolerate that kind of nonsense. And I'm sympathetic to that pastor because they didn't see it coming, they weren't expecting it. Um, but I'm just telling you, um we're not gonna allow it because there's no constitutional protection for that kind of nonsense. So the law is there to give us parameters to work within. We live in a country that provides for free speech. But as Christians, if I'm gonna cross those lines, if I'm gonna go stand on a street corner and yell something, I'm gonna stand on that street corner and share the gospel of Jesus Christ. That's my challenge. If you're saying, what do I do about immigration? I would say minister to and love the foreigner and the immigrant in your community. In our Pinwell program, we have over, I would say half of the families in our after-school tutoring program are Hispanic. We want to love them well. We want to support those families, help their children, uh, really try to take care of those uh moms, and especially those that are working hard and trying to assimilate into society and culture. We don't ask them questions about their immigration status. We just love them and help them. If someone breaks the law, they need to face the full force of the justice system, the judicial system. If that's an illegal immigrant, they need to pay whatever penalty and then be deported and not allowed back into this country. I think we can all agree to that. And um, and so I I would say as Christians, take a common sense approach, take a gospel-driven approach to love your neighbor, care for people, um, don't scream and yell at the police. Paul says, honor those in and that have been put in those positions, Romans 13. Peter says, honor those that have been put in those positions. As a Christian, you're not honoring anybody when you stand on a street corner and blow whistles and create chaos. Paul tells the Corinthians, God is a God of order, not confusion and chaos. And so we need to bring order, and then when we have where we have a voice, we need to speak with clarity and articulation. First and foremost, our message is the gospel. So we proclaim the gospel to people. And the last thing I'll say is this really is the last thing. I don't know if I've said that already, but this is really the last thing I'll say is um every few years there's some sort of a stirring, and the progressive left tends to jump on board and the and the extreme right tr tends to throw up their dukes, and everybody kind of goes at it. And, you know, you go back just a few years ago with the George Floyd riots. I feel like people cat they take a situation and then they turn it into their own crusade or or they build an agenda around it that's maybe not really faithful to the it's not, there's a lot of insincerity. In other words, what I'm saying is people were from the LGBTQ movement we know now, were using the BLM, the Black Lives Matter, the defund the police, the George Floyd riots. They were using that to create chaos and confusion to promote their own cause. Um in Minneapolis, there's a lot of there's a lot of question about the way money's been sent in there from the federal government and who's in charge of that and scandals surrounding the governor and local leadership and the mayor of Minneapolis. And I don't know how much of what's going on is genuine care and concern for immigrants, more than it's just creating chaos and confusion to disrupt the order of society and to push back against the side of the government or the side of politics that you don't agree with or whatever. It just seems like it's very agenda-driven. I think my word to our young people on our staff this morning we met on this was if you want to do something, there's people in this community, there's people in your community that you could minister to and support and help who are immigrants living far from home. Maybe they're refugees, maybe they're immigrants here on a green card or a working visa. Uh, maybe they're illegals and you don't know and you don't have to ask, as long as there's a ministry opportunity there for you. Now, um, don't take part in breaking the law or pushing back against the federal law enforcement. I think that's crazy to do, and it doesn't make any sense. And then don't be ignorant. I think there's three categories of people that are often discussed in the scripture. There's the ignorant, there's the foolish, and there's the evil. Don't be ignorant. No, don't don't post stuff that you don't know what you're talking about. Don't don't look at what one person's saying and just jump on their bandwagon. Don't be ignorant. Educate yourself. What does the law say? What is the responsibility of local or a municipality police agency, a federal law enforcement agency like ICE? What is their, what do they exist for? What is their mission? Every federal law enforcement agency has a mission. The FBI has a mission, the DEA has a mission, the um ATF has a mission, the uh ICE has a mission. And so figure out what that is. Um National Park Service has a law enforcement wing or arm. Like figure out what do they do? Are they executing that? Um and educate yourself. Don't be ignorant. What what is the this cause of these protesters? What is what do they stand for? What are they really when they're yelling against ice, what are they really standing for? Are they saying, let's help this lady in Andrews who has four kids and sells tamales to make money to make sure she can pay her bills, is screaming at ice agents in a major city really doing anything for her? Probably not. Could probably take your energy and effort and help her. So don't be ignorant. Don't be ignorant when it comes to the scripture. Know what the Bible says and why it says it and how it says it. Don't be ignorant. Second thing is don't be foolish. Don't take the word of God and twist it. That's that's fool's, that's a fool's errand right there. To take God's word and try to make it mean something it doesn't mean, that's dangerous. That's a fool's errand. Don't be foolish when it comes to applying things that are out of context. And don't be foolish when it comes to who you align yourself with. The scripture speaks to this. If you if you surround yourself with fools, if you run in the company of fools, um, there are going to be consequences to that. So don't be stupid. And then the last one is don't be evil. Don't get behind evil movements who are practicing evil and take part in that. If you're a Christian, a child of God, don't take part in that. I don't expect a Christian to misquote scripture or to take part in evil endeavors. Uh a person who's not a Christian that misinterprets or misquotes scripture, like that guy Don Lemon, who says he's a Christian, but he's misappropriate, misquoting scripture. I don't know if he's a regenerate, born-again child of God who's been um who's been filled with the Holy Spirit. I don't know that. But I know that he, if he's not, then he's like what the scripture talks about often. He's someone who's twisting the truth, masquerading as a as a um sheep in wolves' clothing. So be aware of that. That's evil. It's an it's there's a there's an evil agenda out there to push back against the spread of the gospel. And one of the things, I mean, Satan's the one that twisted scripture from the beginning. He said in the garden, did God really say? And he twisted the words of God. So let's not do that. Let's not be foolish, let's not be ignorant, foolish, or evil. Let's be informed instead of ignorant, let's be wise instead of foolish, and let's do good and seek what is righteous instead of that which is evil. And let's just be common sense Christians who use our voice where we can to advance ultimately the gospel of Jesus Christ so that people would know Jesus and be able to come into a relationship with him. Hopefully that's helpful. We're gonna have a longer, uh uh not much longer, but a little bit longer discussion where we'll some of this will be redundant. We're gonna post another um conversation with me, uh, Zach, Mabry, Rob Conti, Spencer Davis. We'll get into a little bit more of this. Um, if you're interested in that, we'll post it as another bonus episode, but but but it'll be redundant. This is just my thoughts. I'd like to get their thoughts, and uh and we'll have that conversation for you in the next episode. So hopefully it's helpful. Let me know. Let us know what you think. If that's helpful, if you've got questions that got answered or didn't get answered, let us know. And uh we'll do what we can to be an encouragement. I will say this Snowbird has always had one mission is to proclaim the gospel, and in that to make disciples and to equip the church. And so we, you know, in the No Sanity Required podcast, it's the only sort of arm of Snowbird that where we address cultural issues. Even in our intro, we say um a podcast about the Bible, culture, and stories. So we do want to address cultural issues and help and help help you respond appropriately. And I hope this has been helpful for you. Um and if and if it makes you mad and you hate it, um, that's okay. We can accept that. We're happy to uh disagree with you. Um and I I don't get uh I don't take things personal, even if you were to target me with personal comments. Um I know who I am in Christ and what he's called me to do, and and I'm gonna keep doing that. My hand is fastened to the plow, fixed to the sword of the spirit, um, which is the word of God, and that's where I'm gonna live. I'm not gonna get swept away in in social or cultural issues that circumvent the work of the gospel. And I think people tend to do that. Um one one particular situation I'm thinking of, but I'm not gonna I'm I'm we'll we'll be done here for today, and we'll have some follow-up content with those other guys. So um hope this is an encouragement, gives you some clarity, helps you know how to respond, how to react. Get busy, love your neighbor, be involved with people that that you that you can help, um, and and stay out of the weeds of of causes that are evil or foolish. Um inform yourself, um, be wise, make wise choices, and seek that which is good and righteous, and do it all for the name and glory of Jesus so that he might be known among all people, all places for all time. Catch you next time.

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