No Sanity Required
No Sanity Required is a weekly podcast hosted by Brody Holloway and Snowbird Outfitters. Each week, we engage culture and personal stories with a Gospel-driven perspective. Our mission is to equip the Church to pierce the darkness with the light of Christ by sharing the vision, ideas, and passions God has used to carry us through 26 years of student ministry. Find more content at swoutfitters.com.
No Sanity Required
Is Lying About Santa Worth It?
In this bonus episode, Brody and JB talk all things Santa—sharing funny stories about how they found out and using them to explore what Christmas traditions teach kids about belief, trust, and faith. Brody explains why his family moved away from presenting Santa as real and how making Santa an all-knowing figure can blur important lines for children.
Instead of going all in or opting out, they offer a middle path: keep the fun, tell the truth early, and keep Christ and generosity at the center of the holiday season by using these practical tips for making the shift without unnecessary tension.
Please leave a review on Apple or Spotify to help improve No Sanity Required and help others grow in their faith.
Click here to get our Colossians Bible study.
Okay, in this uh episode of No Sanity Required, we're gonna get into Santa Claus, the Elf on the Shelf, uh Jim Carrey's version of the Grinch and what Christmas uh traditions really should be, which ones matter, which ones are harmless, even if they're not necessarily the most healthy. Uh, no judgment here, just gonna have a fun conversation. Welcome to No Sanity Required.
SPEAKER_00:Welcome to No Sanity Required from the Ministry of Snowbird Wilderness Outfitters, a podcast about the Bible, culture, and stories from around the globe.
SPEAKER_01:All right, we got we've asked uh a couple of other uh guys from Snowbird to come tell us their Santa Claus story.
SPEAKER_02:Yep.
SPEAKER_01:But I get asked this, gosh, I have so many things running through my head. I want to tell how I discovered Santa Claus wasn't real.
SPEAKER_02:Okay.
SPEAKER_01:And then I want to tell about a funny event that happened to me teaching middle schoolers.
SPEAKER_04:Okay.
SPEAKER_01:Okay. So, and if you teach your kids that Santa Claus is real, no judgment here today. Right. That's not what we're gonna do. Um, and if you from if you think it's stupid that parents would teach their kids that Santa Claus is real, no judgment there. Just gonna have a conversation and and we will share some insights. And for those of you that have young kids or that are parenting, uh I'll give some thoughts maybe that you need to wrestle through. Um, okay, the way I discovered this, so I've I came from a Santa Claus family. We believed it.
SPEAKER_04:Me too.
SPEAKER_01:Okay. So uh I can even remember, and you probably have this memory as well. I remember I don't remember going and like sitting on Santa Claus's lap at a mall or something, but we didn't live near a mall. And I remember somebody coming to my house.
SPEAKER_04:Really?
SPEAKER_01:It was Santa Claus, come by for a visit. Yeah, I was probably about it's an early memory, I was probably four or five years old, and uh somebody had dressed up as Santa Claus and came by and um and came for a visit. My the the only thing I remember about Santa Claus, because I was pretty young when I figured you know, when it when I quit believing in Santa Claus, but the I would have been in kindergarten, I got a bicycle for Christmas, and I remember it didn't have training wheels on it. So I was five years old, and I remember being confused. I was like, it don't have training wheels. And I remember my my dad saying, or my mom, I don't I remember my one of my parents saying, Well, Santa Claus don't this is this the the irony. Santa Claus don't believe in the kid having training wheels. You gotta learn how to ride that bike, boy. So a guy who we don't believe is really so a make-believe fake character doesn't believe in training wheels. So I had to ride I had to learn to ride a bike, which I'm glad I learned to ride a bike. And that was great. But so I remember that Santa Claus memory. But then it would have been like a Christmas or two later. Uh I wanted, have you ever seen these racetracks where it's like RC, like you've got a little controller and it's it's a racetrack and the cars go around?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:That's what I wanted for Christmas. So I was probably in like first grade. And I remember getting I remember so excited you go to sleep, you can't sleep. And I remember waking up thinking it was morning time. But it was like 11.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:I've been asleep an hour or whatever, you know. And I and I sneak down the hall, and my dad's playing with the, he's in there playing the racetrack, you know. He's just he's you tell he's putting it together and he's zoom zoom zoom running the race cars around. So the next morning I come in and it's look what Santa Claus brought you, and it's his little racetrack. And I remember just going, wait a minute.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:And I can remember saying to my dad that day, hey, you put this racetrack together last night. Is Santa Claus even a real thing? And he's like, Nah, Santa Claus ain't real.
SPEAKER_04:How old were you?
SPEAKER_01:Like first grade. So probably six. Probably six. And first or second grade, uh, I think first grade, and I remember it was for me, it wasn't devastating where I was like, Oh my gosh, I've been lied to. I think I was too young to think of it that way. Right. I just remember him saying, But now, now your brother and sister think you know, they still believe they're little kids. I remember for me, it was like, oh, I'm mature now. So I'm in on the secret. Right. That's my memory. And but I think for you it was a little later.
SPEAKER_04:Yes. I'm embarrassed to say that I was like 12 when I figured out Santa was not real.
SPEAKER_01:And how old are you now?
SPEAKER_04:I'm 23.
SPEAKER_01:So this was 11 years ago. So let us let us, for perspective, you have you have not believed in Santa Claus less than you believed in Santa Claus.
SPEAKER_02:Okay, when you put it that way.
SPEAKER_01:I mean, it's 2025. Yes, this was 2014.
SPEAKER_04:That is so embarrassing. But as a kid, I had a very, very, very active imagination. I was a weird kid. I talked to myself, I had imaginary friends, like I had two older sisters, and there's a pretty decent age gap. So like they would hang out and then it would just be me. So, you know, I'm I'm left to my own resources, I would make up stuff, whatever. And so I loved the idea of Santa Claus. Never once did I think, is this fake? I just thought this is real.
SPEAKER_02:Right.
SPEAKER_04:And my parents, not dissing on my parents at all, but they they did a good job keeping the Santa Claus alive. You know, we would lay out cookies, the cookies would be eaten. I would even lay out reindeer food, like celery and carrots for Rudolph.
SPEAKER_01:And your parents would eat them.
SPEAKER_04:Yes. And same thing, like your parents listen to NSR too.
SPEAKER_01:They're probably dying laughing at the end.
SPEAKER_04:And I've I've already had this conversation with my parents because now on the flip side, now I'm speaking very bold with my chest. I know that I do not have kids. So I'm saying right now, I don't want to do Santa Claus with my kids, you know, but who knows? I don't have kids. So, but I remember I was, you know, they even did Elf on the Shelf, they did everything like that. And I remember I was like in fifth or sixth grade, and kids, you know, would joke, Santa's not real, or like whatever.
SPEAKER_02:Fifth grade.
SPEAKER_04:And I think everyone knew but me. But at school I would play it cool and be like, oh yeah, Santa's not real. But deep down, Santa was real to me. And so I remember coming home one day, it was around Christmas time. Actually, no, it was around Halloween time. Cause I remember we were in Walmart and all the Halloween decorations were up. And I remember being with my mom and being like, Mom, I'm confused. Like, I'm overwhelmed with emotion. Is Santa real or not? And she was like, What? No, like we thought you already knew, and I was devastated. I was crushed. Yeah, you were old enough for it to really affect you. Because then not only was I crushed that Santa wasn't real, I was more crushed. I was like, you guys have been lying to me, and now I look like an idiot. Like I just felt a little betrayed. Now that was fifth grade drama queen joy bad. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But that I think fuels a lot of like why I don't want to do Santa because I don't want to lie to my kids. Also, I did not hate to say, I did not care that Jesus, this was like the nativity Jesus was born. I didn't care.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, you didn't care about that.
SPEAKER_04:Like, and my parents did a great job, you know, teaching us about Jesus and everything like that. But you know, Jesus didn't bring me gifts, you know, like actual gifts that I put on my wish list or whatever. And so that's also another reason why I'm like, I just don't know if I want to do it.
SPEAKER_01:Well, I think for young parents or people that aren't parents yet, something to think about is don't think maybe don't think about what does this mean for my four, five, six-year-old child. It's fun and it means a lot to them. Think about what is it going to mean to them when they're 20 or 25 or 30. And I mean, and mo I think so so our experience as parents, we did Santa Claus because we've raised five children. We and we've we've really had more than that because we've fostered and we've done guardianship and we so we've had you know multiple children that that have come and gone in our family. But we've raised five. And we pro there was a progression. We started doing the Santa Claus thing. Yeah. And then there was a point where we said, we're not gonna do this. And so there was there was a transition. So I feel like I can kind of speak to it from both sides.
SPEAKER_04:Right.
SPEAKER_01:Now we'll say this, which by the way, Elf on the Shelf, we didn't have that when I was a kid. That was a later thing. And it had come along when my kids were coming up, but I was like, Oh, I ain't doing that. That's just what I teach my kids, hey, there's creepy people. I ain't gonna install a guy in my house that's watching my kids. That's I'm trying to teach them how there's real people that do that. You know, yeah, and so um I mean, I taught my girls how to shoot, not just we go out and target practice every once in a while. I taught them how to run a handgun like you're fighting with it, you know. And so I'm not gonna I'm not gonna contradict that and say, oh, there's a fun guy, a man. He's an actual man, he's grown, but he's just really small, even scarier.
SPEAKER_04:Right.
SPEAKER_01:He's a small miniature man that hides around your house. Yeah, and is always watching you like wait, you mean when I change clothes when I go to the bathroom? Like, yeah, I don't, I don't look, yeah, he does. He watches you, you know. Yeah, and so so our here was our progression. Our first child was born, and we did it. We started off doing it, but when she was very young, probably five, four, probably four, I was like, I don't, I don't want to do this. This is silly, this is just dumb. Because I'm like, how I like, what are we doing? I don't I so for me, we did it and then we stopped doing it. And by that point, we had two kids. And so our first kid But there's also you gotta remember, or you gotta think about this a kid's first two or three Christmases, they don't know.
SPEAKER_00:Right.
SPEAKER_01:So you're like Santa Claus, this, Santa Claus, they don't know what you're talking about. So really, I don't think there's cognition, like a cognizant understanding of who Santa Claus is, probably around age four. So if you do it from the time your kid's born until they're seven or eight, there's probably only about three or four Christmases they understand what's right. They're they're believing in this thing.
SPEAKER_04:For some.
SPEAKER_01:Except for you.
SPEAKER_04:Right.
SPEAKER_01:For Joy Beth, maybe a few more Christmases. And for Solomon, who we talked to yesterday. We haven't we're having this conversation yesterday. We're sitting around with a group of interns and some of our younger staff, and they're like, Oh, yeah. So and Solomon Ryan said, Man, I believed it. I was in sixth grade. What did he say? He's like, his parents, I don't even remember how it went down, but his mom was like, uh, yeah, that's not real. Like almost, she's like, What do you mean you really believe that? Right. He had kept believing it. They had never told him different, just thought, surely he's outgrown us. And I know his parents, and that's hilarious. Yeah, I mean it checks up. So funny. So for me and little, I remember, um, I remember saying, I don't want to do this. And so we just, we just kind of we just kind of let it die. Like that next Christmas rolled around.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:And and our oldest two were young enough, they probably didn't remember that we had made a Santa Claus thing, yeah, uh deal out of it the previous year. And so we had, I remember just saying, um, let's just don't talk about it.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:So that was how we transitioned.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:So we just quit talking about Santa Claus and it just wasn't a thing anymore. And so uh Yeah, so there was there, I do remember there was a point where I was like, I want to explain to them, hey, just so you guys know this isn't this is make believe, and you're gonna have friends because I needed to say, don't go tell your friends or your cousins this is not real, you know. And because I didn't want to be, I wasn't gonna teach my children that. I felt there was a point where I felt like I don't want to teach them this. And I'll get into the why of that. And I think people can go to two extremes. They either become dogmatic and militant about why you shouldn't teach it and they become judgmental, or they become they or they are judgmental the other way. Like it's just make believe, we're just having fun. Right. And it can cause a lot of friction. Oh, yeah. So I just remember I remember talking to my kids and saying, look, let's don't don't talk about this with other kids. Just when you hear kids talking about Santa Claus, you just know that's not a real thing. Right. And um, and so and and because I also remember as a kid, I was around that same time as the racetrack story, I remember thinking, there ain't no way a guy could fit in our fireplace. Ain't no way. And then I remember I was over at my buddy's house and they didn't have a fireplace.
SPEAKER_04:And you were like, How did I? I remember having the same thought.
SPEAKER_01:He's supposed to come down that chimney. Yeah. And so um, I remember explaining to my my two oldest kids, hey, don't make a big deal. And then I did that with my third child came along and I was like, hey, don't, don't, we'll just keep this low-key, it's our family. And uh, but okay, this is so here's the funny story. So then Juju and Mo came into our family. Juju was that first Christmas we had them, she was five years old.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Mo was two years old. So we've just gotten them in our family. Christmas rolls around. Juju is in kindergarten and she's at school, and the teacher is asking everybody what Santa Claus is gonna do. Okay. Now, I love that teacher to this day. She's retired now, she's a wonderful lady. Um both both those kids had her in kindergarten. And she but I'm like, why would you have this as an exercise in class? And I realize it's such a common teaching, everybody believes it.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:So she's going around, what is Santa Claus gonna bring you? And then they get to Juju, whose English is pretty broken because she's Ugandan by birth, and so she's like, you know, Santa Claus ain't that's not real. Like no, no, she was real animated. Yeah, and she's like, no, no, no, like that, you know. And so the teacher's like, what do you mean? And she said, No, no, Santa is no no. And uh and the teacher says, uh, wait, did Santa, what does Santa Claus bring you? Well, she's basically, I don't remember how she ordered. She's asking her this the traditions of Santa Claus in Uganda. Right. And Juju said, Oh, Santa Claus don't go to Uganda. Right. He don't come over there.
SPEAKER_02:Right.
SPEAKER_01:And uh, but anyway, she she declares to the class that there ain't no such thing as Santa. To this day, she's got two friends.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Uh one of them is a pretty close friend of hers, and I know her parents really well. Her name's this girl's name Riley, and she's a local kid. And she said, every Christmas, Riley's like, remember when you told me Santa wasn't real? She's bitter in kindergarten. And uh that's a pretty funny story. But um, but I think I think it's uh Solomon just showed up. We're just telling your story. Come over here and tell your story. I think it's a bigger southern tradition, it is Santa Claus, too.
SPEAKER_03:That's what um, so for me, like growing up, my mom and dad had always told me Santa's real, like Santa's real, the L's are real, like you quit believing, you quit receiving. Like, you don't get presents if you quit believing. It's like the Polar Express. Yeah, yeah. Was the Polar Express a big movie for y'all? A little bit. In school, it was. Every every Christmas time at school in elementary school, we'd get in our auditorium and we'd all bring a blanket and a pillow. It's a hot chocolate and candy canes, and you'd watch Polar Express, and it's awesome. But um, now I remember, so my parents told me that. And growing up, I was like dead set on it. And like I was always yeah, and I was always trying to think because eventually it got to the point where you'd hear other kids and you'd tell them, No, he, you're lying, he is real, because my parents told me so. And I was like, Oh, I believe. And so then it got to the point I got to like fourth or fifth grade, and I started noticing. I was like, I don't know. But then I was like, no, he's gotta be real. And I started like thinking, how could this work? And it's magic. I just I'm gonna believe it's magic or whatever, which was dumb at the time. But like I ended up getting the sixth grade, first year in middle school, and in history and like social studies, the teachers teaching us about the middle school. The teacher was teaching us about uh the folklore of Santa Claus, and her name was Miss Sigman. And I was like, Miss Sigman, you stop. Like he's real, like you're you're messing around. You ain't gonna be receiving Miss Sigmund. I was like, You telling me he's not real, and she's like, No, he's like, did you not know? Like she started getting worried, whole classes like dogging on me. Why do you believe in Santa Claus?
SPEAKER_01:And I'm like, you were the were you the only kid in there that believed?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, it was like me and maybe like two or three other kids.
SPEAKER_01:And there's probably, if there were others, they saw the reaction and they're like, oh, I ain't saying that.
SPEAKER_03:Well, I got dogged on. I was the first one. I was like, he's real. I like stood up for what I believed, and that was the backfire for what I believed. Stood up for what I believed in. Saying it's real. So then I got with conviction, yeah, for sure. So then I go home, and later that night, we're all just sitting on like in the living room on the couch, and I'm sitting there, you know, talking to my parents, like what you want for Christmas, all like the normal stuff, watching a Christmas movie, just hanging around. And I'm like, Mom, today in class, we we learned that Santa's not real. And at first she was like, They told you Santa's not real. You believe in Santa, right? I'm like, no, and she's like, Well, I knew this would come eventually. She said, I thought you would have knew way before now, though. So, like, she knew that I was gonna quit believing in Santa Claus, but she never told me. They were just gonna let me ride it out, and then I end up getting the middle school, and it's I get plenty on that.
SPEAKER_01:I should tell our listening audience Solomon's mom is one of the funniest ladies I know. She's a hoot, she is a hoot. I want to hear her perspective on this because I bet it's funny. Yeah, it is funny. She you have to ask her. I'm going to. Oh, I'm gonna ask her. She's she's hilarious.
SPEAKER_03:I remember when I quit believing in Santa Claus, and then I never really believed in any of like the other fairy tales. The only other one that I believed in when I was a little bit. Tooth fairy. Tooth fairy. And I was like real little, and I had lost like one of my first teeth. Me and my dad had been outside like playing that day, and he still like he can still tell the story. But we were outside, like sitting there in the yard, the front yard, and we I forgot what we were doing. I think he had put like a little swing set up that day on a tree or whatever. And so we're just hanging around, and um, I was like, Dad, I'm gonna wait for the tooth fairy to come. And he had like taken a nap in the front yard and he was like, Tooth fairy's not real. And he stood up real quick and was like, Oh shoot. And I was just real little, and he had told me that. So those two things were devastating. They told me, yeah. Devastating and ruined it very hard.
SPEAKER_01:Oh man. Well, thanks for sharing.
SPEAKER_03:You're welcome. That was awesome. You're welcome. No problem.
SPEAKER_04:My mom is a first grade teacher, so every year there's like one or two kids that she'll like kind of sniff out that they don't believe in Santa. And they're always, you know, the whistleblower. So she'll have to pull them out and be like, hey, I understand you don't believe this, but like we're not gonna spoil it for the other kids. So funny. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:So funny. Yeah. Um let me let me uh let's let's give some some things to parents, young parents to think about. I'm not gonna say don't teach your kids that Santa Claus is real or not. You know, like you gotta you gotta work that you gotta work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. But I'm sorry, the bad joke. But I don't think it's the best thing.
SPEAKER_04:Right. I think it can be done like Well, I'll say well. I've I have friends that their parents just kind of like what you said, never really told their kids, Santa's real, Santa's coming. They shouldn't really talk about it. You know, kids would hear it and then ask questions. And then, you know, that kind of opens the door for the parents to have a conversation about it. Yeah. Um, so I think, you know, there's ways to do it well. I don't know if I will proceed in going gung-ho with it, you know, but I I proceed on, carry on.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Yeah, I think what what we did with our kids is we explained, hey, there are people that believe this. And I think I mentioned earlier, you have we have family members that are gonna teach this, and it's not your job to reveal to them that that's not real. That's a family decision, but just so you know it's not real.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:And uh I remember with the tooth fairy thing, I remember just being like, ah, we're not gonna uh that's not that's not a real thing, so I'm not gonna teach my kid that hey, when you pull your tooth, put it under your pillow, and an imaginary creature's gonna bring you money. Yeah, we I was like, I I didn't do that. So, and let me explain why. It's not because I'm an old fuddy dud. It's because uh there's a couple of reasons why I've I developed a conviction to not do this. One is uh from the earliest age, I want to impress on my children the things we talked about in those previous couple episodes, the the earlier episodes this week where um the the message on the Isaiah 9, 6 and 7 and the genealogy of Jesus and those discussions we had. I want to teach them those principles. Yeah. And that's a biblical principle uh from Deuteronomy 6 that um in in the home, we're to teach those principles when we rise up, when we lie down, when we go in the way, when we're in car car rides or whatever. And so I I don't want to distract from that. And then Christmas is a season of the year where we have, much like the resurrection celebration of Easter, we have this opportunity to really bring an emphasis to who God is, what he's done, who Jesus is, what he's done. So that's I want it to be all about that.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:And then I want it to be all about uh giving and sharing and not just giving of gifts, but to create this strong emphasis on time spent together, meals together, you know. And so I it the the the Santa Claus tradition can I think can distract and at the very least distract and at the very worst really take away from some of that.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Um if you are gonna do it, I would just say have a have a conversation with your kids earlier that it's not real than letting it go. And I'm not casting judgment on your parents or Solomon's parents. I mean, I I have utmost confidence in both of those parents and families. Um but just thinking about where we're at culturally too. Y'all grew up in a world where make-believe was a little more I grew up in a very fairy tale make-believe where when I was growing up, um, we didn't have you didn't even have V VCRs yet. So uh the only even Christmas type movies you could watch would be we would have the last day of school in the elementary school I went to, we would watch the old Rudolph Christmas thing, the you know, with the abominable snowman, and we would there would be a Sunday night showing uh on TV of the Charlie Brown Christmas thing. And that was about it. And so it was a different time, and I think in this era, there's already so much distraction.
SPEAKER_04:Right.
SPEAKER_01:It's a season to slow things down and really focus on on sharing with each other the the truth enjoy Christmas. So I think that's wise. If you are gonna do it, I think go ahead and and and get it out of their system when they're young. Right. Don't let it linger.
SPEAKER_04:Right.
SPEAKER_01:Here's why. I think the long-term effect could be, which this did not happen with either one of y'all, um, the long-term effect could be I'm telling my child, I'm I'm I'm painting a picture of someone who has a fairly godlike persona.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:He's judging you based on your works, if you're good, if you're bad. Are you does your good outweigh your bad? You'll be rewarded accordingly. Yeah. He he's omniscient, he's all knowing, he's he he knows everything, he sees everything. These are characteristics that I'm gonna attribute to God, the God of the Bible. And then I'm all of a sudden gonna say, I made all that up.
SPEAKER_03:Right.
SPEAKER_01:Or someone else is gonna tell my kid, your parents made all that up. I'm then gonna try to explain to them, but Jesus does all those things, or at least very similar, but he's not made up. And they go, but I can't see Jesus, and I never saw Santa Claus. We went to the mall and saw a guy that but but I never see Jesus. So it can be confusing and disorienting. So I want to be real clear in how I present the gospel at the youngest age.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Because you know, and everyone here on set knows, you got to go through that period, whether it's in middle school or high school or uh early adulthood, where you question your faith. You question your faith. In the Great Commission, when Jesus is talking to his disciples, this is in Matthew 28. They're all gathered together and he says, All power has been given to me, and all authority has been given to me. You see this in Matthew 28 and Acts 1. And he says, uh, and he commissions them to go and proclaim the gospel, and he's leaving. He's like, I'm gonna go away, but I'm gonna send the Holy Spirit to be with you. And it says, and of those there, some doubted. There were people in the physical presence of Jesus at his ascension who doubted that he was gonna return. Doubt is a reality for everybody. Yeah, we got to wrestle with it, we got to deal with it. And I don't want to do anything that's gonna enhance or accelerate doubt in in the life and the mind and the imagination of my child. I want to teach them what John writes, these things I've written so you can know that you have eternal life. John, uh, first John 4 8. First John 4 8. 1 John. I might have got the wrong reference, but it's in 1 John. I want them to know that you know that you know. And so you gotta be careful that you don't teach them fairy tales as fact.
SPEAKER_04:Right.
SPEAKER_01:Now, here's what I think is a fun alternative, and this is what we chose to do. We taught them about Santa Claus. We taught them about the original Saint Nick. We celebrated Santa Claus, but we celebrated it as a fairy tale, the same way you would celebrate Jack and the Beanstalk or Cinderella, or you know, we told stories. And so I think a good alternative is talk about Santa Claus, watch Santa Claus movies, um, have fun with it.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:But make sure they know this is make-believe.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:And we can still have fun with it and enjoy it.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:So you don't have to, I think where some parents can go, you know, especially like in the reformed world or the the more theologically rigid world, which is where most of our people probably line up, it's easy to become so dogmatic that you you eliminate all fairy tales. Man, I fairy tales are part of growing up.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, sure.
SPEAKER_01:You know, telling stories, whether that's whether that's the old Grim Brother tales or it's nursery rhymes or it's fairy tales. That's it's fun. And and I enjoy those and I enjoy telling those, making sure that we understand this is make-believe. So we can have fun, we can celebrate Santa Claus, put a Santa Claus out. I don't care. You got your nativity scene, and over here you got a Santa Claus on the on the porch or what that's fine, but make sure we understand this is fairy tale, it's fun, it's make-believe, and and make sure that we're emphasizing. Now, some people are gonna argue with that and say, no, no, no, remove Santa Claus. Yeah, but the legend of Saint Nick is a beautiful story. Uh-huh. So I think celebrating that and talking about who this guy was and what he did, and this is not an episode where we're gonna deep dive into that, but the the the real Saint Nick was um it's a it's a wonderful story. It's an incredible story of what this man did and what he represented. So, um, so as as we're recording this, we've already done this, but our teaching team, I mean, as you're listening to this, we've already done it, but as we're recording it, tomorrow our teaching team will be at a uh a large Christian school um leading in a day of ministry. That it's it's really cool what this school does. It's called Discipleship Day. And they they don't do class all day. We have breakout sessions and it's uh it's a day of apologetics and defending your faith. And this year the emphasis is on uh what you believe, why you believe, being able to defend it. And um so uh at the end of that day, they have a chapel service. And several years ago, I was speaking, and it's a middle school and a high school at this school. It's K through 12, and it's a pretty big school for a Christian school. I was talking to the middle school kids and I was speaking to them in chapel, and I made the comment as I was I was talking about how you can believe in something, but that doesn't validate if it's real or not. So if you believe in Bigfoot, either Bigfoot's real or he's not. But your belief doesn't make him real or not real. You believe in Christ as the the Son of God, your belief doesn't make him real or not real. But belief plays a role in my experience and it's critical. For the Christian, my belief is what is needed for me to surrender to the gospel and and cry out to God. Um but but anyway, so I'm making this, I'm drawing this analogy, I'm making an example by saying if you believe in Santa Claus, that doesn't change the fact that he's not real. And if you don't believe in him, it doesn't validate the fact that he's not real. He's simply not real. It's a folklore, you know. Well the principal calls me. He's a friend of mine. Yeah, the the the principal of this school calls me and he says, Man, you created a stir. And I was like, What are you talking about? He's like, Yeah, we got sixth graders.
SPEAKER_04:Solomon.
SPEAKER_01:This wasn't Solomon's school. It wasn't Solomon's story, but same deal. He's like, You got some people spun out. And I was like, Well, first off, what shame on y'all. What kind of school are you running that you got sixth graders that believe in Santa Claus? And uh, and I said, Hey man, throw me under the bus. Tell them, just say to those moms, oh man, this this guy, we brought this knucklehead in to speak. We didn't know he was gonna do that. I said, throw me under the bus. And they, but but this guy was like, no, no, no, we'll this good. It's it's this guy's a strong leader, and he's like, it's an opportunity for us to talk to these parents, but pretty funny. So little did I know in this school's chapel service, I'm teaching, and kids are unraveling in in the room at the at that time. No, pretty funny. Yeah, pretty funny. I did uh I remember there was uh this my last thought, there was some drama around my uh family one time where I had one sister who they did not teach it and did not believe it, and but they were pretty dogmatic about it. Like, this is a lie, this is crazy. Well, and another sister that was like, we're gonna ride it as long as we can, you know, and there was some drama between them, you know. It was pretty funny. So people can get pretty fired up about it and passionate about what they believe and how they're raising their kids. I would just say do everything with wisdom and discretion. And yeah, if you're gonna teach that Santa Claus is is something as a part of Christmas, um, I think the best way to do that is to teach it, but make it clear that this is make-believe.
SPEAKER_04:Right. Not the main point of Christmas.
SPEAKER_01:Like we're having fun with this, yeah. Um, and this and and tell the folk story of Saint Nick and then explain where the traditions come from, and then we're gonna do this and we're gonna have fun with it. And um, just like we put a tree in our house, why do we do that? Most people don't know why, but it there's a reason behind that. So just get into those traditions and and maybe even at a young age, teach your kids, hey, we're gonna celebrate Santa Claus, but or we're gonna have fun with Santa Claus, but we're gonna celebrate Jesus.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:You know, and yeah, but and then if you if you do feel like, no, we want our kids to believe in Santa Claus, I'd say, I'd say pull out of the pull pull them out of that at a young, young age, you know. And I think that's that's wisdom for them to be able to understand that Jesus is real. It's not like Santa Claus. Right. It's just some things to think about.
SPEAKER_04:Right. Definitely having that and like a structured conversation. Because even like we're joking about how me and Solomon found out and you know, telling stories, but like you were saying, that can quickly lead to a kid mentally, you know, unraveling and then thinking, oh, is Jesus not real? Or like even just I guess lowering the authority or the power of Jesus and just thinking, oh, it's all make believe. And so even if, you know, you do do Santa with your kids, okay. But like having those very structured conversations, yeah, you know, so the kid isn't spiraling and that's right, you know, it's and and with both of y'all, y'all turned out just fine because your parents raised you overall in the nurture and admonition of the Lord.
SPEAKER_01:If you're gonna here's what I would say to parents that have have are already teaching or letting their kids believe in Santa, just make sure you're raising your children in the nurture and admonition of the Lord and the wisdom of scripture, and they're gonna be fine.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:You haven't like messed up by teaching them that.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:But uh make sure you're emphasizing those things that matter when it comes to understanding who God is, and and it'll be fine. Cool.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:That was fun.
SPEAKER_04:Yep.
SPEAKER_01:Y'all let us know if there's other things you'd like us to comment on, whether it's during this Christmas season or not.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Um, no one wrote in about that. That was just uh I think we I think that came about about we were sitting around in the media office yesterday and we're like talking and telling these. I think Solomon told his story, you told yours. We started laughing, and then well, let's do an episode.
SPEAKER_02:Yep.
SPEAKER_01:Hopefully folks will enjoy it. So yeah. Hope y'all enjoy it. Hope you're having a Merry Christmas. And uh we'll we'll have uh a couple more episodes that'll be more uh advent Christmas focused and uh just celebrating what this season represents. And I'm excited for the I'm excited for the um like the lineup we've got of episodes that we're gonna put out in the in the weeks and months after Christmas, first of the year. We got some we got a good lineup. It's gonna be fun. All right.
SPEAKER_00:Thanks for listening to No Sanity Required. Please take a moment to subscribe and leave a rating. It really helps. Visit us at swoutfitters.com to see all of our programming and resources. And we'll see you next week on No Sanity Required.
