No Sanity Required
No Sanity Required is a weekly podcast hosted by Brody Holloway and Snowbird Outfitters. Each week, we engage culture and personal stories with a Gospel-driven perspective. Our mission is to equip the Church to pierce the darkness with the light of Christ by sharing the vision, ideas, and passions God has used to carry us through 26 years of student ministry. Find more content at swoutfitters.com.
No Sanity Required
Staying Faithful in the FBI | A Wife’s Perspective
In this episode, Clay and Brenda Hicks share a candid look at marriage, family, and faith under the weight of a high-risk calling. Clay shares some unbelievable stories from his years in federal law enforcement, while Brenda offers perspective on holding a home together when his job is unpredictable. Together, they reflect on the tension between danger and devotion and how God’s sovereignty provides stability when everything else feels uncertain.
They speak honestly about building unity in marriage amid pressure, protecting their kids’ peace, and learning to rest in God’s control when outcomes can’t be managed. It’s a grounded conversation about resilience, obedience, and the steadying presence of faith when life refuses to stay steady.
Staying Faithful in the FBI (Parts 1&2)
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Okay, y'all. We're just gonna roll straight into this part three episode. Um, I do just want to say I am so, so grateful and thankful for Clay and Brenda. They came to the marriage conference and they came a few days early and just sat down with us and they were great. I really appreciate just uh all the things that they had to share. Brenda just shared some great nuggets of wisdom and it was just really cool to hear from both of them. So I'm really grateful for them. They're both so well spoken, and I think Brody mentioned it on a previous episode, but Clay truly is a master storyteller, and you are just hooked. Like he just paints such a great picture. So I really hope you guys have enjoyed these episodes. Um, Brody, I'll give you guys a little update. Brody is traveling, he is hunting out in Ohio. He's got to spend some good time with Tuck and Little. They've been hunting, and I think he killed honestly, I'm not even gonna say number. He told me and I forgot. No, little, I'm sorry. Little killed an eight-point buck. So good job, little. Uh, if you guys are into hunting, personally, I have never been hunting, so I'm kind of a fish out of water. But eight points is good, I think. So congrats, little. Um, and he I think is gonna record uh maybe a little mini episode uh beyond the flannel graph as he's on the road traveling. So be on the lookout for that. And then we have one more interview episode that you guys, it is crazy. It's a young lady named Gwen. She comes up with a church Southside that we have been partnered with for a long time. But Gwen, you guys do not want to miss her story, her interview. She is so well spoken. That will be posted next week. So definitely be on the lookout for that. And I mentioned this last episode, but if you guys haven't already, you guys need to check out our Advent study. Uh, there will be a link in the bio of this episode that you guys can buy the Advent study there. But like I said last episode, Zach Mabry wrote this, and it's just a really cool thing to go through with your with yourself, with your family. Um, but yeah, you guys should go check that out. Um, welcome to this week's episode of No Sanity Required.
SPEAKER_01:Welcome to No Sanity Required from the Ministry of Snowbird Wilderness Outfitters, a podcast about the Bible, culture, and stories from around the globe.
SPEAKER_03:We we've got we've got the honorable boss lady here. Boss Lady. I would like like there's no doubt that the Hicks marriage is like every other marriage. And so I'm shifting this to get personal. It's just marriage retreat weekend as we're recording this. Y'all have come in for the marriage retreat and y'all have been coming for years, and um I don't know if there's a career field that's harder on a marriage. What is the like in federal law enforcement? Remember my cousin in the Secret Service, I think he said 90%. It's 87% or something divorce rate. What is what is it? I mean, it's just astronomical. I know we don't have a number to put on it, but Yeah, I d I don't, I mean, I I in your in your experience, in your career, like lots lots of divorce. Yeah. Lots of failed marriages. Yeah. And we're not, I'm not saying that to shame anybody that's listening who's been through a divorce. The Lord knows that is not what I'm saying. I'm just saying, how how hard was it being married to this idiot? Arkansas Neanderthal, going around throwing flashbangs and shooting people and telling them about Jesus. And I mean, you're married to a guy that is not normal. You know that, right? Like that your your normal becomes um you're like we we just learn to live with our normal, right? And but God, you're married to a guy, God has put a calling on his life, and that's why we've got him here sharing this, but you're just at the house take hauling them girls to basketball and making brownies and cookies and cooking, having supper on the table, just living life, but it's not normal. How what how hard was it? Or does it in your mind is it like it's not really that hard? It's just what God's the life God's called us to, because also you have a high view of the sovereignty of God.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, um, I I don't know. I mean, he was pretty normal when I married him, and he became kind of weird as years went on. He was actually kind of a nerd when we first switched around.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, we learned that in the first episode, like like nuclear submerged, like the difficulties of giving.
SPEAKER_00:And he was gonna get out and be an engineer somewhere, and we were gonna find, you know, our favorite state to live in and settle down, but that didn't happen. So no, but I mean I grew up in the military, so I grew up moving every two or three years. So I think that lifestyle was already kind of ingrained in me. In fact, I get really restless. We've been in we've been in Virginia for many years now, and I've always got this itch to go somewhere. So next. Yeah, yeah. But we travel a lot, but no, I don't think I I don't I don't think our I wouldn't say our marriage has been we've had our issues, obviously, but we haven't had a rocky marriage. The the times he's gone are not tough times or hard times, but they're not they're not tough times, you know. It's not um I guess it probably all does boil down to the sovereignty of God. I'm not as eloquent speaking as he is, and I'm not as well versed in, well, I won't say I'm well versed, I'm well read in scripture. I'm not well um, I don't have the ability to come up with, you know, verse and and and and uh what's the chapter and verse just off the top of my head. But um, but the sovereignty of God and him being Lord over my life is you know uh very ingrained within me and and has been since we, you know, since before we met, which is what probably attracted us to each other to begin with. Because he was kind of a nerdy guy, but I heard him teach a Friday night Bible study during a like a singles group that we had at the church we went to in uh Norfolk, Virginia, and I was like, wow, okay, yeah. So it was it was a spiritual side of him that attracted me to him first, honestly. Um and uh clothes. Yeah, oh I burned some of his clothes after we got married. He wore this one shirt over and over and over and over and over again.
SPEAKER_03:I was like, oh we do that, that's what guys do. You get some favorites and you're like, I'm just gonna this works, I'm gonna do this.
SPEAKER_00:He he for sure needed help in that department. So I I filled that need, I have filled that void. But um, but no, like, you know, times when he had to go, you know, every day, every husband gets up and goes to, well, not every, but you know, for the most part, the typical American family, your husband gets up and goes to work in the morning. Well, you know, there's a chance of car accident. There's a there's a there's a chance anything could happen, you know. So you can get yourself all worked up and worried over the what-ifs. Um but like you know, we're um God's sovereignty, he's gonna take you when he's ready to take you. And then that's you know, and you can't live your life in fear of that happening at at any moment. You know, we had three little kids to take care of. I had to, you know, keep moving forward. I I felt like I was kind of the what's the word, like the sieve that um I would sift out all the bad stuff so the kids didn't didn't weren't weren't scared. So I can't be running around acting all scared. Oh, I hope daddy's not getting shot at right now while we're on our way to T ball. You know, I mean, we can't, you know, I you can't let that let those thoughts get into your mind, you know, and just it's just this a very so the Lord is my peace. He brings peace to my life, but my peace and my joy don't come directly from my husband, they come from the Lord. Yeah. So while you know, we find joy in life together, um, you know, in in his absence, when he's gone, when he's doing those dangerous things, I still have the same peace and the same joy because it's coming from the Lord, it's not coming from, you know. So that made a huge difference.
SPEAKER_03:That's so good.
SPEAKER_00:That's so powerful.
SPEAKER_03:That's so strong. That's so good. Um, was there, can you remember, Brenda, a story where was there like a a case he was working on when he was in, you know, when he was doing like a gang stuff, or was there a bad guy he was after, or was there a de a a moment in deployment that stands out in your mind where you felt a greater sense of not fear, but like, oh man, this I need to pray. This I've got an uneasiness about this, or was it always just like every day was the same, just praying for for God's protection? Is there something that stands out? Was there one particular story?
SPEAKER_00:Um Well, I mean, I could think of several. I mean, just overall, especially all the SWAT hits he would go on really early in the morning. Um, I would always just get up and, you know, say goodbye to him, but I'd go right back to bed. It's four o'clock in the morning. I gotta I got a whole day's worth of kids come up. I can't, you know. So um so I would definitely think practically about life, but I would think in my head that he's just going off to the office. I wouldn't think about what he was actually going to do. And then as soon as he was done, he would send me just a real quick text because after they're done doing whatever it is they're doing, they gotta go back and do all the like debrief stuff, you know. So he doesn't have time to call me and talk. But just one simple text saying it's done, and I knew he was good and I would just go on with my day, you know. But I do remember um back to the story he was telling you about the the um gunshot through the little the hole in the place where he well uh while he was gone, our youngest child, he was uh just starting t-ball. So he had his first t ball game. And I remember sitting at his T-ball game, and I just remember thinking, this is really odd, how I'm just sitting here, you know, living the American life, cheering on at a T-ball game, you know, a little boy with the jersey that's way too big and the helmet that's all crooked on the side of his head, you know, and he's running and it's falling off, you know. And I was just thinking, I wonder what he's doing right now, you know, like what the difference in him being there and me being here, and just it just kind of hit me how, you know, wow, he's he is not doing what I'm doing, you know, and hopefully, you know, and I felt like I should I I did pray for him at that moment, but it wasn't like this big, I feel the sudden urge, I need to pray, you know. But it did come to mind that, you know, and then later on we were talking about when that situation happened, and we realized he was I mean, we might have been off by an hour or two, but we realized he was probably in the midst of that situation while I was sitting at our son's first T boggin. That's crazy.
SPEAKER_03:So Wow. Man. I've heard so many stories like that of a a wife or a mom just feeling or a dad for their kid just feeling like an urge to pray or intercede, and and you find out that in that moment the Lord was calling on you to I found out much later too.
SPEAKER_00:He did not tell him stories about what he was doing until long after he got back. I still don't know all of it. I think you probably know more of his stories than I do.
SPEAKER_03:I pull them out of him, but but if our listeners now know Clay, first off, Clay's like me. He ain't never at a loss of words, you know. Uh I you know, I if I sit down and plug, you know, I can just hit record and start talking, and I don't know if it's a blessing or a curse, but I can run my mouth, you know. And and so when me and Clay get together, it is not a 30-minute fireside chat. No, we put we put everybody to bed, don't we? We shut that fire down. I mean, every time he comes to the fire, and there's 12 of us, and then there's eight of us, and then there's four of us, and then it's me and Clay. And usually Adam Garner. Adam Garner will be laying there with us.
SPEAKER_02:He'll sacrifice sleep.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, and I mean that last that the reason I wanted to have this follow-up episodes was after we recorded last summer that evening, that Friday night, we could record on a Friday, then that Friday night, me and Adam and Clay set at the fire till 3:30 in the morning.
SPEAKER_05:I think I received a text from Brody and said it was like four in the morning. He said, We got to do a part two with Clay. And I remember thinking when I mean he's leaving tomorrow morning.
SPEAKER_03:Um where have you been? What are you doing now? What is it? Let's let's uh let's wrap up with what are you uh there's one story, one funny story I want to tell. And uh again, thank you for sharing that because um that's one of the most profound things I think that for me. Um somebody Katie Hayes told me the other day she said uh she said, I ask little, she's 'cause she meets with little and she little's sort of mentoring her. She said, I ask little about after thirty-one years of marriage, where do you still have affection and is there because little and I aren't super we're not publicly physical and we're not privately that f we're neither one super touchy physical people. And so I'm very intentional in the morning to to have a long hug and just because you don't know for me, I'm like this one of these days I'm walking out that door and I'm not coming home. Like there's a day when death does you part. Every couple. I mean, how many people you know in your life, how many couples have you known that they both died together? You know, it's very rare. So I want the last thing to always be um a a a positive thing. And so I'm talking to Katie about that, and she said she had asked Little about what's it like when you've been married this long? And Little said, Well, we grow in our friend. I think in the these last years we've grown more in our friendship. You know, you you you grow in your affection. That's it's a different kind of affection. And so the longer you are married and the longer you're together, but then part of what enables that is I I have I don't have an unhealthy dependency on my spouse. Right. My dependencies on Christ. So for Brendan to say, yeah, when he's whether he's deployed or he's home, what like my my source of joy and peace is the Lord.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah. It's not this person. I also do love the point that you made of like, but together we are able to experience joy and peace, but he's not the source of it. I love that.
SPEAKER_03:Goes back to that saying, um, if you're with the person that God's called you to to you're committed before the Lord to this person, your joy will be doubled and your sorrow will be cut the load of your sorrow will be cut in half because you bear it together, yeah, or you experience it together.
SPEAKER_00:So I would add too that like um the Bible instructs us on how to be married to one another, how to love one another, how to treat one another. And if a husband is loving his wife well, it makes it a lot easier for her to handle something like a deployment or a law enforcement, you know, um situation. Uh because it it fosters more respect and more love and more um desire to see that man fulfill his own dreams and not feel it's it's not there's not a selfishness there. So he's leading without selfishness, I'm following without selfishness. And together we're putting one another's needs before our own. And there's there's much more harmony in something like that than than if each of us is fighting for, well, I want to do this, well, I want to do this, you know, because that's where the anger seeps in and the lack of unity starts to develop, and that would make a deployment a whole lot harder. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. That's good. I will also say that we're not special. There are there are people who go out and do this every day. I only dealt with one employee uh deployment. There are some wives who've gone through five, six, seven of them, you know.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, no doubt.
SPEAKER_00:And had the had their children while their husbands were deployed, and there are thousands of people out there who said goodbye to their their husband this morning and sent him off into some sort of law enforcement or some sort of um, you know, dangerous type job. So we're just we're just one in a million. There's nothing super special about us. Um, you know, we're just trying to follow you know, the be obedient to the Lord and follow whatever his his path develops for us. And we never know. I could change this regularly. But the important thing is to just be obedient, be ready to, you know, go where you're supposed to go, be sent where you're supposed to be sent, and to do it together as a team. Because he's put us together and we're not we're not we're not changing that. I ain't going nowhere either.
SPEAKER_03:So what what are you doing now? You're you're retired from the FBI, and but you're not you're not the grass ain't growing underneath them shoes.
SPEAKER_02:No, no, not at all. So first one thing I I will push back on one thing Brenda said, like uh we're not special, but she is. So uh I I uh like many men, I married up for sure. And uh um I I will tell you that I have lived this whole life thus far and not had to worry about what the Bible talks about as a contentious woman, as all these different things. But if you know Brenda, she is not a shrinking violet, right? She's not she's not like you know, standing in the shadows and weak and all that kind of stuff. I mean she is, she's an incredibly strong woman, yeah, but but has displayed for others around her as well as our daughters and our son what it looks like for biblical marriage to be, right? Like the the the the whole lie of of those who would come against um complementarianism as a whole is that you know following in marriage somehow makes you weak, right? And and my response is uh obviously, well have you known any SEAL team six guys or Delta guys or whatever? Well, yeah, were they following somebody? Yeah. Do you want to call them weak? Because I don't plan to, yeah, right? Everybody follows somebody, and and this is this is God's design in marriage, and but I just want to call her out publicly and say that from my vantage point, she did it right.
SPEAKER_03:It can be done, which means it can be done right. Yeah, it can. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. So I mean, to answer your question, what am I doing now? So I work for I work for a company uh that a a buddy of mine through this deployment that we talked about, I kept in touch with him over the years. And eventually when it came time for my retirement through a whole series of things, he was like, hey man, come work for this company I'm working, working for. And uh, so it's a it's a company called Zignal Labs, and it's essentially turning turning open source intelligence into um you know, into operational use cases of various, various kinds. And so I work with the intelligence community, um, military broadly, but but also special operations community, um, federal, you know, federal civilian agencies, and then some really large-scale commercial agencies as well. Um, and it's it's kept me kept me moving for sure.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, because we're I mean, you're jet lagged right now. I mean, how long have you been stateside? Two days?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. Well, yeah, I mean, over the last six weeks, it's been London for a week, Germany for a week, back to London uh all in one trip, and then I was home for a few days, and Brenda went with me to those the those two trips. Um, and then I went to um through our partnership with uh various uh various uh believers in Nigeria. I was in Nigeria for a week um ministering uh with two other dudes, two other HRT guys, um ministering to um those have been affected by the um the Bukharam uh incited uh Falani Muslim attacks. Um so we've been there a number of times now, and this was just the most recent trip. So we were out in the bush with them. Yeah, but but anyway, so uh was you know, was in Nigeria and then um home uh a week and then I was in uh Sea Island, Georgia, and we were at a we were at a conference, kind of a CIA focused uh conference down there, and then uh here for a couple days, and then I'll be in Hawaii next week.
SPEAKER_03:So doing And that's work, or is that you're gonna surf? That's no, that's work. I wish Coconuts and surfing.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I wish I wish I could surf. No, we'll we'll probably be in various uh military bases the whole time and various things.
SPEAKER_03:So um I would like for you to uh tell there's one story from when you were doing gang stuff, I think. I mentioned it to you on the break. Well, you tell that story, it's such a good story, man. It's so great. JP's never heard it.
SPEAKER_02:So again, I forget what year it was, but it was probably in the in the 2011, 12 time frame, somewhere in there. And uh so Washington Field Office uh had a a bank robbery squad. Um, and they worked all kinds of different bank robberies in and around DC and and all that. And so they hit us up, us being the SWAT team, so I was one of the team leaders at the time, and uh hit us up and basically said, Hey, these guys, this crew that we're into have uh robbed a number of armored cars. They've done armored car hits. And so your armored car robbers are generally, not always the case, but generally more violent uh because you're going up against guys with guns, you know, the security guards carry weapons, and uh, of course it's an armored vehicle, and you know, there's there's all kinds of security protocols that go with that. So, anyway, um they had hit a number of armored cars and they had uh killed at least one guy, if I remember right, it might have even been a couple of guys. And so through their very long investigation, they had they had generally figured out who they thought the crew was, and they had gotten a uh uh source in with them. And so the source um essentially was providing information, and um so in instead of waiting until they hit whatever the next thing was, right? Just doing a constant surveillance, um, they uh the the guys basically called uh called Wells Fargo, uh, or Brinks, I'm sorry, Brinks, and um and said, Hey, or it might have been Wells Fargo, I forget which one it was, it doesn't matter. But they called one of the armored car companies and said, Hey, can we have an armored car? And can we have some uniforms? And uh so they told them why. And uh and they were like, Yeah, sure, absolutely. And um, so we basically let it leak through the source that this car was gonna have whole, I forget what the number was, but it was a whole lot of money. It was like$1.1 million or something like that. You know, they were gonna carry collect from a bunch of different places. And so um, so these guys bit and uh we watched them on, we had air surveillance on each of their locations, and we watched them eventually pick each other up in vehicles and meet up. We told them basically where the vehicle was gonna be at one point in the day. And so they they um um we watched them pull off on the side of the road in DC, or one of the one of the streets in DC and wait. And uh our guys came through and they were driving the the vehicle and they had they had a couple guys up front, and I think one or two guys in the back of the armor car. And uh we watched them. They pulled up to a light and and uh the guys got out, you know, pulled out behind them. And uh we at the time, we meaning the rest of the SWAT team or the SWAT team, we had essentially chosen time and place where this hit was going to happen. And we had chosen a narrow alley with brick walls, uh, because this was this was high likelihood to turn into a firefight. Um, and so we wanted it to be as safe as it could possibly be with respect to the public. Um, and so we had chosen an air uh an alleyway that was brick wall all the way up and down, no windows. Um, and there was some hiding places that we could take our armored vehicles and cut off one side. So if there was a firefight, they'd be up against the backdrop of armored vehicles. And then we had a couple other armored suburbans, we were gonna pull in behind them when they went in the alleyway. Uh, and they were just gonna be stuck in this alleyway, right? And so no matter what they did, we would, of course, you know, have superior positioning and you know, all that kind of stuff. Uh, but if they did start shooting, it was gonna be as safe as possible for the public. And so, as you can imagine, everybody and their brother in in FBI management was super concerned about this. Um, and so we had air up, uh, you know, monitoring the whole thing, and we're hearing it on the radio, and I I had a team that I was in charge of on one side of the alleyway, and then my buddies had another team on the other side of the alleyway. And um we're listening to the radio, the air, air calling down and saying, all right, they're making the left turn here, they're making the right turn there, you know, all that stuff. And honestly, these things like the FBI and other law enforcement, it's not just the FBI, lots of other law enforcement organizations. You, you know, you go into all this planning and you're there's always a doubt that it's actually gonna happen, you know. But as we hear them making the turn calls, we're like, this might actually happen. Wait, they're coming down this this okay, okay, you know, and then get your mind right. This may happen. And so we're kind of ducked down on the on the building and we hear the armor car drive in because you can hear the bill diesel motor. And he pulls in the alleyway exactly where he was supposed to go. And uh um we've got a we've got a down link so we can see the air, uh, air view over the top, and we're watching. And they were supposed to pull in the in the alleyway, but they didn't last second. And and this is the thing, all the law enforcement dudes and military guys will know your best laid plans, like the bad guys screw it up somehow. They do something they're not supposed to do, right? Uh which is why you you build in contingencies, right? You build in, all right, if they do this, then we're gonna do this, and if, you know, whatever. And so we had we had built in, like we had contingency upon contingency upon contingency built into this thing. And so uh they pulled, instead of pulling into the alleyway, they just kind of pulled beside the alleyway and parked on the street. And so two dudes roll out handguns, one of them's got a big, dirty, hairy wheel gun, you know. I mean, it's like a hand cannon.
SPEAKER_03:What in the wheel?
SPEAKER_02:And uh the other guy runs out with a Glock of some sort, I forget whether it was nine mil or 40 or 45 or whatever. And uh they're they run down the alleyway because they were supposed to the their guy was supposed to be in the truck and was going to leave the truck door open for them to be able to get into the truck. Well, what they didn't know was that on one side was a DHL office, like the shipping company, but on the other side was the Secret Service uh building that was just sort of a building that, you know, nobody didn't have any signs on it, didn't have anything. And we had worked with them and they're like, oh yeah, heck yeah, use it. And they're like, Can we watch? Like, no, you can't watch. You know, and uh so anyway, uh so we own we own the block. So basically these two dudes roll out, they run down the alleyway, and the driver was in get getting out, he was coming out with an AK. And uh so two guys with handguns run down the alleyway, and the guys on the opposite side, we were my side, my team was the the the coverage, we were the gun guys, and the side over there, they were the bang monkeys, right? So they they were gonna chuck flashbangs, just a number of them, into the alleyway to disorient. And if you don't know what flashbang is, flashbangs just it's a it's a a device that looks like a grenade, and sometimes you'll hear them called stun grenades or flashbang grenades or whatever, but really they're they're not a grenade like you think of an explosive grenade. They do explode, but they don't they don't blow up and send frag and stuff everywhere. Um, so basically what it is is just a a charge of like flash powder and some other things that's on a fuse and it functions like a grenade. It's got a spoon and a pen and you know the whole thing. And you throw it, and then a particular time later, like a second and a half later, it blows, it it blows up. Well, it blows up, it goes off, I should say. It's just mostly just noise, but it is loud. Yeah, it it just it'll it'll ring your bell and mess you up, and then it's super bright. So it kind of, if you're looking at it, it takes your vision away and and it just disorients you, right? And all it's meant to do is to distract, to give us time to do whatever it is we're gonna do, right? So anyway, they chuck a bunch of bangs, and as it's falling, and they're not even they they know they're in the alleyway, but they they're not looking over the edge, looking at them to see them, you know. So they don't, they're not aiming at anything, they're just throwing them over the edge. And one of them, as the guy, as the main guy's running. And so by the way, the guy, the guy that's carrying the wheel gun had killed an armored car guy, and that was his gun. That he was coming, it was the armored car guy's previous, uh, murder, previously murdered guy. He's running down. And but the main guy who had just gotten out of prison for murder, I think he had been in prison for like 46 years or something. I mean, he was an older, a little bit older guy, and he had like murdered somebody in his late teens or something like that. He was just, he was just a mean guy, you know. But as he's running down the alleyway, one of these flashbangs drops and it's on a timer, right? And so it might go off in the air if it's falling long enough or whatever, but it goes off literally right beside his head. You can see, you can see him running down the alleyway, and then you can't really see the flashbang, you know, from the air, but you can see him run down the alleyway and then just go, oh, and just kind of get knocked sideways and get disoriented. Well, right after the flashbangs go off, we come over the top, right? FBI hands up, hands up, and uh, and the guy, the the guy carrying the big dirty hairy wheel gun swings around and looks right at me. And but when he did it, and this saved his life, when he did it, he tucked the handgun behind his back. And so in that split second, you had to determine is this is this a a deadly force scenario or not, right? And so the FBI has a particular definition of deadly force, a legal definition they've used for a long, long time. And and so in the moment, right, I could see that it was it was very like, and this is for those who are not law enforcement or military, this is literally the speed at which you have to make decisions. And and what I'm talking about here is nothing special. Every law enforcement guy everywhere has had to make some kind of similar decision in moments like this. This is not this is not unique, this is highly normal. Um and so um, you know, I I looked at him, decided he he didn't look like he was presenting the weapon. He backed up against the wall. We're giving him commands, of course. He backed up against the wall, pinched the weapon but between his backside and the wall, and then brought both hands up because we were telling him, you know, get your hands up. Now we knew the weapon was there, obviously, and so we're giving him more commands. And eventually he backed, he got off the wall, got on his face, and the weapon falls, and and that was that was that. The guy with the AK in the car was a little slower getting out just because he had to throw it in park, grab the AK, work with the door, get out, whatever. And one of the contingencies we had was if they stopped out on the road, we had a team of two vehicles that were going to come in, and they came in, pinned the vehicle up against the curb and kind of created a wedge against him, sort of a V formation against him, uh, where the backdrop was a brick wall, right? So it was, it was good, it was a good situation. But at that time, we also had two suburbans we used for executive protection type stuff for the directory and the attorney general. And they slid into the other end of the alleyway. So we had two big uh MRAPs at the time, big military vehicles that we had that were that were um um uh what it call it bullet resistant. Nothing's fully bullet bulletproof, but anyway, armored vehicles pull in on one end, these vehicles pull in on the other, and they're they're the guys in the alleyway are trapped. The guys out on the street, or the guy is is boxed in by these two vehicles, they're out and on him fast. Um, and uh he had he he didn't even he didn't get the AK fully out of the vehicle, so he just dropped it, and that was that. Um But yeah, so so uh genius boss man decides he's gonna be interviewed by the media uh a few days later from jail, a week later, well, whatever it was, I forget exactly the time. And this actually shows up in the paper or in in online. He's like, Man, I was just I was just we were just walking through the alleyway and somebody started dropping bombs on our head. Like, well, yeah, they did. Yeah, we did. Uh, but you definitely brought that on yourself by you know the uh weapons that you were running with and the armor car you were about to rob and potentially murder somebody for. So yeah. Yeah, it was uh, but it it was it's hilarious. I mean, there is a whole lot, you know, all these stories we talk about, there's a whole lot of humor that falls into it because you just see human behavior, you know. I mean, I can't tell you how many times we've done something like this. Used to be when we were talking about the kids. I don't if anybody's out there and you're gonna get you're gonna get hit by law enforcement, come to the door with some clothes on, please. I beg you, please, right? I can't tell you how many dudes we've hit houses on and they come to the they come to the door with not a stitch, not a stitch.
SPEAKER_03:Goodness. And you're like, what are you doing?
SPEAKER_02:Throw some drawers on, man. Like, please, please, yeah. I mean, it's it's six in the morning, but really, you know. And so it got so bad that I would tell we would tell stories, or I'd tell stories to the kids as they're growing up. And it eventually got to be, you know, they're like, hey, daddy, did you did you go out early this morning? Like, yeah, yep, I did. Did you get the bad guy? That was always the first question. Yep, yep, we got him. And they were like, was he naked? And unfortunately, a large percentage of the time I had to say yes.
SPEAKER_03:Yes. So did I tell you the story about the streaker in the got into the North Campus compound here?
SPEAKER_02:I knew, I knew it happened, but I don't think that was crazy.
SPEAKER_03:But what was so funny is uh so everybody had left. One guy was driving out and saw this guy walking out here on George Walker Road, and he's a tweaker, you know. And uh I saw somebody walking, and there's a church adjacent to North Campus, and he had was walking back towards that church, which that church had been broken into a couple times. But I ended up coming over here because we had a group here, this building that we're in right here, they were doing their share groups in here. So they just locked the door. The guy was standing on the on the stump back here, you know, screaming and acting crazy. But I came over and I called, I called the sheriff's office. I didn't call 911, I just called the dispatch number because they had already called 911. A deputy had come, circled every building, they couldn't find the guy. I don't know where he was, he might have been in this cornfield. Yeah. But as soon as the deputies left, he comes out, buck naked, standing right out here, screaming, whatever. And we got students had thankfully just come in this building. But anyway, when I got over here, he had thrown a towel, he had a towel, he had put a towel around himself. He had crawled under the fence naked and then had a towel, I think, that he had gotten out of the church. I think he had broken that church, and he's got the towel wrapped up. So I pull in and I'm like, what are you doing, man? And he's holding the towel with one hand, he sticks his hand out to shake my hand. And I said, No uh, no, man, we're not gonna shake hands. I was like, don't, don't come any closer to me right now, you know. And but anyway, he ends up. I f I get the deputies to come back because they're they're confused. They're like, no, we already did this call. We already responded to this call. We checked the bill, and I'm like, No, no, no, the guy, we have the guy, he I'm looking at him.
SPEAKER_05:He just tried to shake my hand.
SPEAKER_03:He just tried to shake my hand. So they come back and uh and he gets out of the, you know, they roll in, we open the gate, and he gets around behind the car and scorch across the road, you know, like he's gone. Yep. So he gets out, runs across the road holding his towel, runs through the meeting. So we're out at the gate, and I'm talking these two, uh, it was a Cherokee County deputy and an Andrews Town cop, and he goes across the four lane holding his towel. Well, they they they wheel around, they go code, and they fly over there to the and he runs into that hotel. First, he goes in the woods behind it, they're looking or true, and so I jump on top of my truck right here at the gate with my I keep a set of binoculars in my truck, and I'm on, I'm watching the whole thing from over here. And then Spencer pulls in. I I called Spencer Davis. I was like, who who do I who definitely wants to be here for this? I called Spencer, I said, Hey, there's a streaker, naked dude running around over here at North Campus. He just ran across the four lane. And Spencer said, Thank you so much for calling me. I'm on my way. So he pulls in. I had a second set of binoculars. We're on top of the truck watching all of this unfold across the road over there. And the guy ends up in the lobby. Anyway, they have to fight this guy in his town. They're the naked guy in his lobby. And they're rolling out and put him in the car. So they come back over. One one of them hauls him to jail, and the other one comes over here to take a statement from us. And and I was like, hey man, just keep your distance. I saw you rolling around that naked guy. Keep your distance. He didn't think it was funny. He's like, Man, I don't get paid enough to do this.
SPEAKER_02:I got all right, I got I got two stories. I went on a I went on a mission with uh with SEAL team while I was in that deployment. We go out and it was a it was an what they call an offset infill, right? So you're you're maybe four miles off the off the target, and you it's in the middle of the night, right? We're landing at, I don't know, one or two o'clock in the morning, whatever time it was, and uh we're on nods, right? And we're and we're walking in the dark. So helos let us down, helos fly off, you wait for a little while, make sure nothing happens, and then you begin your movement. And so we're sneaking through, right? Because there's a whole bunch of places we got to sneak through to get to the target. Um, and the guy was a foreign fighter uh uh facilitator, and he was bringing in people from all kinds of different places. So anyway, uh we're walking through, and we had planned the or they had planned the mission. Um but in the meantime, we were gonna walk through these wheat fields, and in the meantime, the farmers had flooded the wheat fields. And so the the uh aerial imagery they had from a couple days ago wasn't even good anymore because these wheat fields were were flooded. And so we hid these wheat fields, and it's literally up to your mid-thigh in mud and muck and garbage. And so what was supposed to take us, you know, I don't know, maybe an hour to get there, hour and a half, something like that. Like it it took us like three hours, and we are just getting our butts whooped by this. And I was super happy because I'm like 38 years old and I'm watching like you know, 23-year-old seals fall out and fall on their face in the mud, and everybody ended up face down in the mud at some point, right? At some point, and so when we got to the target, I was like, sweet, I made it, you know. Yeah, um, and uh, yeah, that that right there is a win. Uh, but we get done with that, with that hit, and uh, we get picked up by the Helos, and now we made a lot of noise and all this other stuff, you know, and at the at the end of it, we get done and um flying back and we land in Kandahar, and uh we get a call. I don't know, it's probably a couple hours later. We get a call and they're like, hey, what happened out there? So we're like, you know, so the guys talked to them, you know, because they were calling us the actual SEAL task unit that I went with. And they're like, what are you talking about? And they're like, there is an unexploded RPG embedded in the bottom of the he of your HELO. It was a HELO I was on. What? And so Yeah, you haven't told me that one. I haven't, I'm sorry. Uh and so so we we were like, seriously, and like, yeah, yeah, we were doing, you know, post post-mission aircraft inspections and doing some maintenance and whatever, and like one of the dudes found it. There's a hole in the bottom, you know. And uh, but back to the sovereignty of God, right? For whatever reason, that RPG got shot and and God just said no. Right? Wow, and and that's crazy. You know, is it is it so that we can talk about his glory and his sovereignty? Maybe, you know, I don't know. He he has he has purposes and things that we don't we don't see and we don't know. Um, but you know, eventually that turned into the the ODA team leader after they heard about it, you know, basically thinking I was their I was their religious good luck charm. Yeah, you know, I'm like man, I don't think it works that way. Uh but um He thought it did. Yeah, he did. He did. But it allowed for other conversations, so you know, good enough. Um but uh but you were talking about so you were talking about the the story of the of the uh naked dude running around here. So we were gonna hit a there were a whole series of reasons why why SWAT was gonna be called in to hit this hit this particular uh uh thing. Um and it was a child sexual assault material production case where the guy was actually making videos abusing children. And um so we go hit the place and the guy's about five three tall and five three wide, right? And he just like the guy that breached the door that was on on my team, so I was I was a senior team leader at the time, the guy breaching, we actually his nickname was Xerxes uh because from the movie 300, he's built just like him, bald head, the whole thing, yeah, like a six six, wingspan for days, and like you know, negative body fat percentage kind of thing. Just absolute stud of a guy. And um, so he, you know, splinters this dude's door, and he comes to the door and just falls flat down on his face in fear. And he's he's big, he's big guy. Uh and so they finally get him out and he doesn't have a stitch of clothing on. Oh no, head to toe. Head to toe. And so I see him where I'm out in the front kind of coordinating efforts. Uh, and that's the that you know, when become a team leader, you get to do all the work and get to have none of the fun. That's unfortunately the problem. But I see him on the porch, and from the side, I can see certain characteristics, and I'm like, oh, that's that's a woman. And I'm like, all right, we need to get a blanket on her. And then then he gets him hooked up and turns him around. I'm like, nope, that's a dude. That's a dude. And so I'm like, all right, I don't care anymore. Bring him out. Bring him out. Come on. Weirdo. Because it's this guy, right? I don't care a bit. Bring him out. So I hand him off to uh to uh so the guys hand him off to me. Dude's buck naked, that's good so much as a sock. Oh wow, and uh so I I take him because we were a little short-handed that day, so those guys went back in. I take him and I turn him over to the negotiators and FBI agent, she's really good at what she did. She was F she was a negotiator, female, and I said, Hey, can you watch him? I need to go back in and and handle some of this stuff. And uh she's like, he doesn't, teeth gritted, he doesn't have any clothes on. I'm like, I see that. I know that. And uh and I'm like, Oh, you got he ain't going anywhere, right? And if he does, just kneecap him and he'll fall and it'll be fine. And uh, and she's like, he doesn't have any clothes on, like you said that already. You're an FBI agent, get over it. It's okay, right? And uh, so anyway, I get a call about that time from my assistant team leader, and he says, uh, he's like, you have got to come in here. I'm like, what? He's like, I'm not gonna tell you, just come in. So he meets me at the front door and directs me up these little short stairs to a little room. And I'm like, what? And he says, I'm not gonna tell you, just go up. And so I'm thinking there's some prank, there's something, you know, but but you know, this guy was, I mean, he he was all about the fun, but he also was super serious, very capable guy. So he's not gonna do stupid stuff in the middle of operation. So anyway, uh I I walk up these stairs and I walk into this room that's I don't know, maybe 10 by 10, something like that. And there is a whole series of shrines to demons and to Satan. And on one of the main ones uh is a is an actual goat skull that's got dried blood on it and various animal parts and all kinds of different things. And I look along the wall, and there's all these little potion-looking things and you know, names of demons, no idea where the names came from, but you know, whatever. They had names, and all these different shrines. And I come back down and he's like, I know, right? And uh I'm like, what are where are we? And uh so we end up, you know, we finished clearing the house, and everywhere we looked, there's books and and pictures and everything about wizardry and warlock, and you know, and I'm not talking like Harry Potter stuff. I mean, it's like true believer books, you know, and and various different things and implementations of of whatever little procedures and you know, spells and incantations that these people do. And I walk through the kitchen into the main uh living area and something hits my helmet and just goes clink. And I kind of walk through and I turn around and look. And over the doorway, you know, people put uh, you know, a picture or or saying, you know, God bless this house or, you know, the Holloway family lives here, whatever, right? Little decoration type things. Nope, he had a giant pentagram, right? It was a little piece that was hanging down and it clipped my clipped my helmet as I was going through. And I'm looking at everybody, I'm like, where are we? Like, did we just step into bizarro world? Like, what happened? And um right about that time I get a call. I had sent some guys out to go clear uh an outbuilding, a structure. And um, I get a call from one of those guys, and he's like, Hey, so my call sign was Romeo One at the time. He's like, Romeo one, uh we just found a coffin.
SPEAKER_05:Oh my goodness.
SPEAKER_02:I said, A say again? And he said, Yep, a coffin. And he's like, There's wires coming out of it. And he was a former uh Marine EOD guy. And I said, like wires you'd be concerned about? Like what do we I I didn't even know the right question to ask, you know, like what are we talking about? And he's like, I don't know, man. And uh so I said, Well, use your discretion. You're you're the you're the expert on this stuff, so use your discretion and you know, clear it if you can. And if not, we'll we'll we'll pull back and we'll we'll worry about other things. So I mean the guy had no no explosives background and is yeah, we knew nothing about that. So we you know, low probability anything anything of that nature was gonna be involved. So anyway, um I thought in that moment we were gonna find a dead kid. That's what I thought. Um and we had brought the guy back in the house at the time, and one of the guys, one of the other guys turned to him and said, Do you have a coffin in your in that outbuilding? And he's like, Oh, yeah. And he's like, Why? And he said, Well, me and my friend, we we we built it and we like to lay in it and listen to music. Without skipping a beat. So all if there's law enforcement. If they're right, oh yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, we threw a blanket on because we didn't want to see that all out yes. And uh, but but uh without skipping a beat, like all the law enforcement military dudes will appreciate this. Like without skipping a beat, this other guy that was with us, he just goes, Oh yeah, absolutely. I do the same thing every Friday night. I get it, I get it, man. You know, and uh so they open it up, and what was hilarious, I I asked him about it later, they said, as they're about to open this thing, that every horror movie that they have ever seen with zombies and vampires and whatever else ran through their mind, like, what are we about to you know? But he had made and it was like a Dracula coffin, right? Wide at the top, narrow at the bottom, occultic symbols all over it and everything, purple lining, and those were speakers. That wiring was speakers. That that they oh my gosh. And so we so he was a full-blown Satanist, right? And uh, and we when we left, we all joked like we needed to find the near none of us were Catholic, and and uh, but we we joked we needed to find the nearest holy water and take a bath in it, you know, just just for safe key, just for good measure. But um, but I talked to my dad uh uh I was a week or so later, I was telling him about it, and uh he retired 34 years in in state police and Arkansas State Police and had worked every kind of case you could possibly work, serial killers, child, you know, assaults, about everything, literally everything. And um he told me, he said, he said, you know, he's like, there's no way to know. He said, but it's quite possible that you guys, you guys, you know, accidentally, but you you stepped in on the progression of a guy that was moving towards being a serial killer because he because a lot of the uh you know characteristics start out with sexual perversions, uh cruelty to animals, uh, you know, occultic practices and and and obsessions with the cult and various different things. And then he, of course, had already gone to, you know, doing horrible things to children. And so uh Yeah. Yeah, so that was that was I've been in way nastier places and way nastier situations and other situations of way more violent and all that kind of stuff. But that was by far the weirdest one that I ever had. That one was just like what just happened?
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, you know, man crazy.
SPEAKER_03:Oh okay. There's well, there's one story that I want both y'all's perspective on. Um, that I have I have retold this story multiple times, and I've got Clay to tell it to me a dozen times just to make sure I'm I'm keeping the details right. But y'all were it was for one of your dogs, was it for Allison? Is it a travel basketball thing or y'all in Atlanta? This is non-FBI. This is just a Hicks family trip. Just a Hicks family trip staying at the hotel in Atlanta, right?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, this trip was actually for Lindsay, our oldest daughters.
SPEAKER_03:Okay, for Lindsay.
SPEAKER_00:Um, travel basketball. But yes, Allison did do some as well. Um we that was a normal thing for us to spend a weekend going softball tournaments, basketball tournaments, whatever it might be. But this one was downtown Atlanta, a high-rise hotel, like over 15 floors at least, I think, right? Peach. Yeah, yeah. And there were a lot of crazy things that happened on that trip, you know, that um before this happened. So we were already kind of on edge. But um uh typically when we go to these tournaments, all the parents get together in the lobby and just kind of hang out in the evening, and the kids will go do whatever they do, and you know, and um we usually end up leaving kind of early and going up to our room. For some reason, this time everybody else left early, the coaches and the other parents and stuff. So Clay and I were in this lobby area, which was like one level up from the main lobby. It was kind of like a breakfast room. We're just sitting in there by ourselves, which absolutely never happens. Um, and our kids were already upstairs, like on the 15th, we were already, we were on the top floor, the kids were already up there getting ready for bed. Lindsay had a really early morning game. And so we're just sitting there talking. We're like, Yeah, probably I better head upstairs. And all of a sudden, this guy comes busting through the door of the stairwell, and he's acting really frantic. Young kid, he's acting really frantic, and he's saying, Help me, help me, help me. Uh, I think I just killed someone, I think I just killed someone, and he's got blood running all over all down. He's just wearing jeans, shirtless, ball cap, and there's blood all over him, and he's just in this panic.
SPEAKER_02:When she says blood, like dump a bucket of blood on somebody else.
SPEAKER_00:And so you don't know if it's his blood or someone else.
SPEAKER_03:He's just got blood all over.
SPEAKER_00:Well, and my first thought was it was a prank. Like we're in the hotel, we're with a bunch of teenagers, he's gonna be able to get it. But we didn't know the kid, we had never seen him before. And as he came running towards us, you could tell he was just in an absolute panic. So Clay goes into law enforcement mode, you know, of course, and he tries to stop him and talk to him a little bit. And we realized we gotta call 911. We got to take care, we know we got to do something about this. So he's trying to subdue the guy, and I'm going into the lobby to tell the desk people to call 911. And they had said somebody up on the 14th floor had already called 911 because the person he had stabbed had left the room and walked around um knocking on doors to try to get help. So somebody who opened their door to this guy standing there, um uh they had already called, you know.
SPEAKER_02:And so I Yeah, let's let's set the context. You're you're traveling with, you know, Tucker or anybody else uh on ball, and you're in a hotel and a dude knocks on your hotel room and you open the door and he's covered in blood, no clothes on.
SPEAKER_04:Oh my god.
SPEAKER_02:That that's what these people are experiencing. Yeah, yeah. Up on the 14th floor.
unknown:Gosh.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, so they had already called the police, and so I told the people at the hotel desk, well, my husband's right up there with the guy who says he did it. And um, you know, I said, he's you know, he's the FBI agent, it's okay, but we need somebody to go in there. And he's like, Oh, he's the FBI agent. So they didn't even want to go in there.
SPEAKER_03:He's got it.
SPEAKER_00:The security guy was backing away from me and going around the other side of the desk. And I was like, Okay. Yeah, so we're on our own. Yeah, yeah. But we went back up there and you know, Clay was talking to him and trying to calm him down and everything. And I don't know how specific I can get about this guy in this situation.
SPEAKER_03:You can get very specific.
SPEAKER_00:Okay, okay. So we're talking to him, and we find out that he's he's basically a runaway and he's homeless, and he was living out in one of the homeless encampments in downtown Atlanta, and that he had arranged a date with this guy through an online meeting, you know, one of the apps or something. And the man he had arranged the date with had um apparently, in his words, and the young kid's words, because literally like 21, this kid, um had thought he had kind of gotten a little violent, so he pulled out a knife, started stabbing him, stabbed him like 17 times, and then took off running down the stairs, 14 flights of stairs in a in, you know, this state of fear trying to get away. But he had a little bit of remorse in him, you know, because he's like, uh, I just I think I just helped me, help me, help me, you know, and he he wanted his help. So um, you know, so Clay was subduing him, and he we had moved him by that time into this room where there was a popcorn machine. So, like you come in uh after a day out on the, you know, in Atlanta or whatever, you come and you can get popcorn for your kids or whatever. So I'm literally standing there blocking people from coming in. And and the police still weren't there. Security guy was still hiding around the desk. He didn't want anything to do with this. So the hotel manager's trying to help out. But she's headed upstairs to check out the scene with these little tiny, you know, ballet flat shoes on, which if you know you're not a lady, you might not know what those are, but they're basically really small shoes. Um, and she came back down, her shoes were soaked with blood because there was so much blood in the hallway up there. Um but rewind back quite a bit. As soon as that happened, I called my kids upstairs because they're and I told them, stay in your rooms, don't go anywhere. Because we didn't know, was it a gang thing going on? What was going on up there, you know? And I was terrified for my kids, but I knew I couldn't go up there and help them. So I wake texted all three of them so that at least one of them would answer, you know, because they're getting ready for bed or whatever. Made them all stay in the room.
SPEAKER_02:And then we've already been a shooting the night before on a bus. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:And a stabbing and a, you know, just downtown Atlanta. Um, but then we had to wait, you know, by the hotel by the hotel um elevator trying to tell people don't go up, don't go up. And we had some other friends who were who were actually staying on that floor, so they're waiting for them to come back so we could tell them you can't go up, you can't go up. And they brought the guy down. Um, when the police did get there, and they put our the kid he was watching in handcuffs, and they brought the victim down. And they had him covered with a sheet, but in his arm was dangling out the side, but they didn't have his face covered. But when I looked at him, I mean he looked like he was maybe 30s, 40s, but he his face and his skin were as gray as your shirt. You got on a gray snowbird t-shirt right now, and it he was just gray, gray, gray. I thought for sure he was yeah, I thought for sure he was gonna die. We looked into it later, and I guess he did not.
SPEAKER_02:He lived.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, wow. But um, you know, we had this kid in handcuffs, blood all over him, maybe 21 scared to death, talking to us. And we're like, we asked the police officer, can we talk to him? And he's yeah, sure, go go for it. He's literally standing back against the wall. He's not even like up and active with the kid. He just has him handcuffed and has him sitting down. So Clay talked to him for a while. I don't know if you want to tell. He talked to him for a while. And then I was like, you know, I just really wanted to go talk to him. I think he needs a mom. So I just told him, you know, hey, I told him how much people loved him, how much he was loved. And he said, Well, God doesn't love homosexuals. So I took that opportunity. I was like, Well, I gotta I gotta talk to him now, you know. And I just told him how, you know, the love of God is not dependent on your sin. And that, you know, you you you can't lose his love because of your sin. He doesn't hate you because you're homosexual, but he does not approve of your sin, you know. And we had we talked a little bit more, but the guy was he reeked of alcohol and he was clearly in a state of fear. I don't know how much he got from what I said, but I tried to make sure he felt loved and a little bit calm and secure in that moment. You know, I felt like more of a mom than an evangelist, you know, for sure. But I also felt like, you know, what other opportunity am I gonna have to be face to face with a homosexual prostitute runaway who's just possibly committed murder? Wow. You know, you don't get those chances very often. So yeah, so we just had to step in and you know, just try to try to say what we could for that kid. And the fact that we had the time to, the fact that the police let us is pretty, pretty rare to me, really.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, when they came in and found out that I was an FBI agent, they actually left. They're like, hey, you're gonna go take care of a thing. Can you can you hold him for a little bit? I'm I'm like, yeah, I can, but I don't even have any handcuffs with me, man. I'm I'm here I'm on vacation. Yeah, I'm in a basketball tournament. But I mean, yeah, I can I I got him, but yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Did you follow up through just through the law enforcement channels to see what happened with the court case or whatever happened to that?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, they I mean they prosecuted him for for some version of assault. I forget what it was. I don't think I don't think he probably because he pled guilty, but I don't think he got all you know, they they held the attempted murder or something like that. But but, you know. Yeah, I mean the the what's what's crazy though, and you're talking about just crazy situations, you know, um you know, you get done with all of that. And I had to kind of manhandle him a little bit. He didn't he didn't fight, but he was struggling to get away or whatever, you know, he's just out of his mind. Um but I get done, we get done talking to him, and I'm standing there and I look at my hands and they're just covered in blood.
SPEAKER_00:Oh gosh. And I was not happy about that. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:And you know, normally, obviously, you know, if you go, if you're on duty or you know, for law enforcement guys, you got you got gloves. You're you're wearing gloves for this very reason. You don't know what you're gonna kind of come up on. Um, but I'm just sitting in the breakfast area of a hotel. Brenda and I, we're just we're just talking, you know, we just weren't tired and we're just hanging out. And um, and so um, yeah, so I'm sitting there and I'm looking at that and I'm like, oh, you gotta be kidding me, right? I mean, this this kid's a male prostitute and and he's you know been with who knows how many people, right? Uh uh high likelihood he's HIV positive and you know, all that kind of stuff. And so um anyway, so yeah, I had to, I cleaned up, you know, alcohol and all kinds of, there's a whole procedure you do. And fortunately, which is which is completely unheard of, you can look at my hands right now. I've always got cuts on my hands from doing whether I'm working on vehicles or woodworking or whatever. I just beat my hands up. And uh I didn't have any cuts. Wow, I didn't have any open, open areas in my hands that time, and uh, which I obviously I'm very thankful for. But uh yeah, I mean when Brenda says she talked to him, I'll give a little more context. I mean, this guy, this guy was literally vomiting, you know, alcohol and all this other stuff. And she she knelt down and got in his face, not aggressively in his face, but like lovingly in his face, and um like moved past the absolute stench of alcohol and vomit and blood and sin and horribleness of all kinds, and um presented the gospel to the kid. And again, back to sovereignty of God. Uh, you know, it's not it's not our job to save people, he and he alone saves, but it's our job to be obedient in the moment, and and she definitely was.
SPEAKER_03:That's crazy. Man, that's intense. Thank y'all for coming back and doing this. Yes, happy to. It's uh I'm glad we're on the same team. Yeah, the kingdom team and the earth team. Yeah. Good guy, bad guy team. Um, but y'all are family, y'all are a snowbird family, so I'm excited for the NSR crowd to get to hear from y'all. And you you're an NSR listener too. I always appreciate the encouragement when you text about a particular episode. And um this is this is the these are the episodes I've looked most forward to since last year. So to finally get to do it, it's awesome. And uh so thank y'all.
SPEAKER_01:Thanks for listening to No Sanity Required. Please take a moment to subscribe and leave a rating. It really helps. Visit us at swoutfitters.com to see all of our programming and resources. And we'll see you next week on No Sanity Required.
