No Sanity Required
No Sanity Required is a weekly podcast hosted by Brody Holloway and Snowbird Outfitters. Each week, we engage culture and personal stories with a Gospel-driven perspective. Our mission is to equip the Church to pierce the darkness with the light of Christ by sharing the vision, ideas, and passions God has used to carry us through 26 years of student ministry. Find more content at swoutfitters.com.
No Sanity Required
Is Forgiveness Always Required? | Part 2
In this part two episode on forgiveness, Brody shares a personal story of receiving a threatening call about his daughter and how he chose to forgive the young man behind it—while still maintaining firm boundaries to protect his family.
Using powerful examples from Scripture like Moses, David, and Paul, Brody explores the tension between grace and lasting consequences. Forgiveness may come in a moment, but healing takes time—and it doesn’t always erase the impact of what’s been done.
If you're struggling with forgiveness, bitterness, or boundaries, this episode offers hope and wisdom.
Is Forgiveness Always Required? Pt. 1
Demas, Drifting, and How to Stay Faithful
Please leave a review on Apple or Spotify to help improve No Sanity Required and help others grow in their faith.
Click here to get our Colossians Bible study.
Okay, I'm back in the saddle. I'm on the road again like Willie Nelson. I'm on I'm gonna record part two to that last episode. We had uh good response from last episode, but what's funny is I didn't really say in that episode everything I wanted to say. Like I didn't even it didn't even get to where I wanted to get to. I didn't realize how long it was gonna take me to just lay the foundation for what I want to talk about. So part two today we're gonna talk about the consequences that linger sometimes in our lives, even after God's grace or the grace of others has been provided. We've been forgiven, we've been set free from our mistakes, but sometimes consequences linger, and we gotta learn to live with those consequences. We can live with those consequences receiving the same grace that we received in God's forgiveness for what caused those consequences, if that makes sense. All right, so this is gonna be a good one. I'm excited, I'm gonna tell some stories. I'm gonna finally get to those stories I wanted to tell. Pretty intense. Buckle up. Welcome to No Sanity Required.
SPEAKER_00:Welcome to No Sanity Required, from the Ministry of Snowbird Wilderness Outfitters, a podcast about the Bible, culture, and stories from around the globe.
SPEAKER_01:All right, I'm gonna start off with a story. It's one of the craziest stories that's ever happened in my life, and I want to preface this by saying there is there is one brother who listens to NSR, and he's a very, very close friend of mine. I love him. Um he's a pastor friend, and he was in this story. He was he was in the story, and uh I just want to say that as I tell this story, I I'm not gonna name anybody, and I'm not trying to ruin anybody's Christian witness because I think everybody in this story that I, from what I know, is walking with Jesus and really trying to s and striving to serve the Lord. And so I'm not trying to hurt anybody, but I want to tell a story that that gives the it gives the it makes the point that sometimes forgiveness can be extended, but the consequences linger. So uh some years ago I was on the road. I was out of town, uh, it was about three in the morning, my phone rung. I answered my phone. Um actually, I'm sorry, my phone rung and I went and I went uh to I thought it was my alarm because it was three in the morning and I had my alarm set for like 4 30, so I just didn't realize it wasn't time to get up. So I hit the snooze or the button or whatever to silence my phone as it was going off. And what I did was it was a phone call coming in, so it sent it to voicemail. So I'm laying there thinking my alarm just went off, just kind of, you know, getting my eyes awake and getting ready to get up. I'm gonna kind of sit up on the edge of the bed where I was staying, and like I said, I'm on the road. I think I was about three hours from home, and I hear the voicemail uh notification go off on my phone. So pick that up. Y'all uh uh before I go on, it not only am I in the truck, but it's raining, which praise the Lord, because my food plot, my food plot needs rain on it. So I'm thankful for that, but it's raining, so uh hopefully it's not too distracting. Um be all right. So anyway, the phone goes off. Uh it's the voicemail notification, so I listen to that, and what I find out is it's a blocked number. It's from a number I don't I don't have this number. I don't not only do I not have the number, but the it's it's blocked. It's like it doesn't give me the number, doesn't tell me where it's coming from. You know how that works, where it's like a block, it just says blocked or whatever. I forget what it said, but it's like unknown caller. That's what it is. It says unknown caller. So I I listen to the voicemail, and it's a really obscene, threatening call about one of my daughters. Um and I mean it was it was dark, man. It was like, as a dad to girls, if you're not a girl dad, I'm sure you can still imagine what this is like, but I can tell you this if you're a man who has daughters, nothing will make you lose your mind like somebody messing with one of your girls. And any man that don't understand that, it just like I don't I don't even like I would, I would, I will fight for my girls to the death without hesitation, without reservation. And I would for my boys or my wife as well. Don't don't don't miss what I'm saying. I mean, I'm not trying to say, but uh for a dad to his daughters, there is a there is a different mindset, man. And you don't believe it, just go to a girls' little league softball game or a girls' high school volleyball game and watch them mamas and daddies get into it and screaming and yelling and stuff. And man, that was some parent at the game the other night from the other team, my daughter Gigi's game. And I was like, that lady's out of her mind, man. She's she's over the top. People lose their mind when it comes to their kids, but but in all seriousness, if somebody poses a legitimate threat to your daughter as a man, you're you'll you'll go to war, you know. So this was a very threatening phone call. Called my daughter very sexual and perverse and derogatory things, and man, it was rough. And so I'm listening to this on the edge of the bed where I was on the road at four in the morning, three in the morning, three o'clock in the morning. And y'all, I ain't lying, man. I went numb. Like I went numb. I was like paralyzed with fear because it also felt like the way the voicemail was left, the way this caller communicated, it made it seem like he might be watching my house or watching my family or something like that. You know, I'm like, oh man. So I freaked out pretty good. All right, y'all, I'm gonna take a break because it is dumping rain and it's I know it's hard for y'all to hear. Let's see if I can get out of this rain and then I'll I'll start back. Okay, I think we're I think we're clear, at least for now. All right, so what I was saying is I was freaking out because this call was so threatening, it was so sexually perverse. So I get up, I get in a truck, I start driving home. It's it's three in the morning, I'm on the road, I'm throttled down, man, I'm just hammered down. And I'm trying to call Little, because she ain't answering because Little never answers the phone. I don't know how many of you men out there can relate to this, but Little don't answer when I call. She don't answer when nobody calls. And I'm like, of all times, please, I need you to answer the phone. And I'm I mean, I'm freaking out, man. I'm like, answer the phone, answer the phone. And after about five tries, she answers the phone. And I say, get the kids, get them to where you're at, get them in the room, and uh, and I'm gonna change a few details in this story, by the way. Just there's a few little things I'm gonna change, time, place, stuff like that. Because I I want to be very careful that that I protect the people involved in this story that that have repented and turned to the Lord. And so, anyhow, um I say, hey, get the kids in there with you where you're at. And so, as they get them in in the room where you're at, everybody in one room, uh point a gun at the door, and if anybody comes through that door, that front door or that whatever, you start shooting and call 911. Um in the meantime, I called Cherokee County, North Carolina dispatch and ask if they would uh deploy a deputy to my house. Um and so we did, and uh they I mean they did, and then that was that. So I get home and we end up going into this investigation with the sheriff's office, work with the sheriff's office. It takes them a couple of weeks to figure out where they had scrambled this number pretty good, and takes them a couple of weeks working with, you know, Verizon or ATT. I don't remember now how this worked, but they're working with phone records and um and and they they track down a number. They end up with a number and a name. And so we end up we end up in a conversation with this man, and and what it was, we we associated them with a church that had been to Snowbird, and so we end up setting up a meeting with this with this man and his 17-year-old son, 17, 18-year-old son, who was the one who had made the call. And then there was a pastor there, a pastor friend, it was their pastor, and then me and I took Tucker, my son. And so we go and and me and Tuck go and meet with this, meet with this man and his son who is uh responsible for this obscene phone call. And in that meeting, now we go and we sit down. This this young man, I didn't know him, um, but he knew who I was because he'd been to Sobird. Uh, but but I knew the pastor, this student pastor, who's now a senior pastor, but I knew this pastor and I trusted him 100%. I was like, man, I'm so thankful that this is the guy, you know. And so um I knew he would he would have our back, but he would also care about this family and try to help them navigate this. I we weren't on a winch hunt. When I realized it was the young man, I was like, I want to scare this dude good, and I want him to be responsible for what he's done. And so we were all working together. The dad, though, was a little bit, I felt like, okay, the dad doesn't seem like he seems a little too, I wish he would be a little more aggressive about this, but I'm I'm not gonna judge how somebody else is handling their business. And so we come into that meeting, and I just slid my phone out in the middle of the table and hit play, and I played, I played the voicemail. Now, I had already talked to the dad. I had ended up calling that number that the sheriff gave me, uh, that the investigate investigator gave me, and I talked to the dad, and I played the voicemail to him over the phone. He said, Yeah, that's my son. So anyway, sat there, we worked through it. The boy, you know, he freaked out pretty good. I told him, I said, if I don't, if I don't deal with you, my son here is gonna deal with you, but you've you've messed with the wrong people. You know, I was I was hot, man, I ain't gonna lie. And uh I think anybody can understand that. He threatened my daughter, threatened her sexually. Like, and so I think anybody can understand that, you know, and and so the boy was repentant. He started crying, he said, I'm so sorry. He said it was a group of us were up late at night. His uh there was some people there that were very opposed to the gospel, that hate Christianity. I think they had pressured him more or less into doing this as an act of rebellion, because I think this kid really was a pretty good kid. Um, and I think he just got swept up in that moment and uh and made a stupid decision. And so he said he was sorry. And so what I told him was I said, hey man, you can't come back to Snowbird because for the last two weeks, it had been two weeks. And I said, for two weeks, everyone has been on pins and needles, everyone's been on edge because we've we thought someone was stalking us. And I and I should back up and say, a few years prior, a couple years before this, we had had a genuine stalker situation where a guy, we found out about a guy that had put pictures of my family all over his apartment. And it was really weird. And this guy was like, OCD, this something like out of a movie. But he had pictures of my wife, my kids. I don't think he had any pictures of me. It was just my wife and kids. And someone that uh went to school with him, it was at a university, was over at his house, and uh and he didn't know they were coming. They walked in, they're like, Why you got pictures of these people or whatever? And anyway, I don't want to go into details there either, because I don't want to mess this guy. Uh it doesn't matter who that guy was, but we had ended up getting the police involved. That was when I ended up getting a handgun for my wife and had her start carrying a handgun around. Um we were scared in that situation. And because there was no crime committed, there was nothing really to confront. I did confront that dude and said, Hey man, why you got my family's pictures all over your house? And I took a couple uh pastors with me to confront him. But anyway, so we had had a situation prior, so we're already on pins and needles, we're on edge. And that's why when people say to me, like I had a couple staff members this summer come up to me and they were joking, and they and I was signing some books, and I had a couple girls on my staff say, Oh, you're famous, will you sign my book? And I was like, Okay, first off, I'm not famous, but don't make jokes about this. If God's given us influence in people's lives, we should recognize that for what it is and be thankful. Like be legitimately grateful for that. And you guys, you guys need to understand that being in the public eye and being in a situation like I'm in, people know who I am, they know who my family is. That's why I'm pretty non-social media, you know. I don't I like it's a it's a weird situation to be in. It just is. And so, anyhow, I'm kind of rambling there, but but I don't like to play around with the whole, are you famous or that like look, I want to use the platform God's giving me to make the most gospel impact that I can make, but I ain't interested in being famous, and I'm not interested in building my brand or anything like that. But sometimes, man, when you've got a spotlight on you or you've got a microphone or a camera in front of you, you end up in weird situations. And right now, this stuff with Charlie Kirk, man, it's got everybody a little bit uh uh like hyper aware of this, you know, and it's like if you take a stand for something and you speak out, you're gonna you're gonna draw attention. And so anyhow, I'm I was I've always been a little bit just like hyper aware of this stuff. And so we had just come through that situation I was talking about a couple years before. So now we're in this other situation, and I said, Look, I ain't I ain't on a wedge hunt here, but you can't come back to Snowbird because people there are afraid of you. They don't know who you are, they're afraid. You've put everybody in kind of a heightened sense of alert awareness, and man, what you did is wrong, and the consequences to your actions are you're not welcome back at Snowbird. Well, this guy, he said he was sorry, he apologized. You go back to the last episode. He was repentant, he asked for forgiveness, and I said, You are forgiven. I forgive you. And I don't remember if I did it in that conversation. I think it was in that conversation. Really wanted to make amends, and again, I trusted his youth pastor. And what I said to him is, I said, I'm willing to meet with you, I'm willing to meet with you monthly. And and invest in you personally. And that might mean that occasionally I drive, he lived about maybe three hours away, three or four hours away from us. I was like, once a month, I'll drive somewhere, meet you at a Starbucks, and we'll sit down, and man, we'll talk about godly biblical manhood and and and I'll invest in you, but you cannot come back to Snowbird Wilderness Outfitters. You're not welcome on our property. I've got to make sure my family knows that I'm not just gonna, because I I had told my family, hey, someone wants to do harm potentially to one of the girls. We've got to be vigilant. And once we identified the guy, they knew who he was. I couldn't go back to them and say, oh, he said he's sorry, it's okay, now he can come to Snowbird. My family, man, it it wreaked terror with my family. And so I said, Man, you've burned that bridge. You can't come to Snowbird. But we can we can have a relationship, and your youth pastor is an amazing brother who will disciple you, and me and him can work together and let's build this thing, you know. And and so the consequences lingered even though forgiveness was extended, you know. And so sometime later he was trying to come back to camp. He was like, you know, some time has passed. Are we good? And I was like, no, man, you can't come back. And so then his dad and his mom both sent me just really ugly. The mom sent me a really ugly email, and the dad left me a really ugly voicemail. And I get, man, I get it. They're they're nice people, I think, probably. They probably love the Lord, and they're just trying to take up for their boy. But sorry, you threaten my daughter, you don't get to come around me. Like, even if you say I'm sorry, will you forgive me? And we reconcile that, that's fine. There are consequences that sometimes linger. The consequences of that young man's actions were you ain't coming around my family, man. You're not coming around my family. You crossed a line that that in the in the code of manhood, you crossed a line that this is a great opportunity for you to learn a lesson. And that lesson is there's certain lines you cross you don't get to come back from completely. And that that's not me just being a jerk. It's just for me, the message to my sons and daughters needed to be I've got you, I will protect you. Nothing in this planet is more valuable to me than you. And so that was that was that. That is that's just how it is, okay? So I cannot have my my family doubting me as a provider, protector, and shepherd. And so that young man, while he while I have some responsibility in his life, his dad and pastor have the greater responsibility, and I trust the pastor, and hopefully could trust the dad. So, y'all take care of that, we'll take care of this. I've told him I'll meet with him and invest in him, and we can build a friendship, but you can't come to Snowbird. So when the dad sent me the grumpy text message, when uh, you know, sometime later they asked if he he asked if he could come back. This young man was he he had gotten a little older, he's up into his 20s. He's like, Can I come back to Snowbird? I said, No. If you want to come to a men's conference, I said, No, you can't, man. You can't come. Sorry. And so, and I will say I sought counsel on this. This was the men and leadership at Snowbird agreed on this. And uh so the dad, man, he he ripped me in this, and then the mom ripped me and said, You call yourself a Christian, which I I hate it when somebody uses that phrase. You call yourself a Christian. No, I don't call myself a Christian. Jesus calls me a Christian. Jesus has called me by name, Jesus has declared me righteous, Jesus has washed me in his blood, Jesus has made me his own. I'm no longer a slave to sin. I'm a child of God and a slave to righteousness. I don't call myself nothing. I just accept what Jesus has declared about me. So that's what that's who I am. And so she said, you call yourself a Christian, but you don't know how to extend grace to somebody. The dad said the same thing. I said, and I responded one time, and then Little said, don't respond anymore. And my my response was, my response was, the grace is that I didn't do anything to this young man. I didn't attack him, you know, or get him arrested or beat him up or, you know, like legally come after you. Like the grace is that I said I forgive you. We can build a relationship, we can move forward. We're not talking about grace, we're talking about sometimes there's consequences that linger. And so I bring that up to say, man, don't have such a cheap view of grace that you think, well, you said you you asked for forgiven, I asked for forgiveness, so you gotta forgive me, and we gotta act like nothing ever happened. No, sometimes things happen that we can't completely and entirely move on from. So I want to give you three examples from scripture um that support this. Um, with with three different outcomes. The first one is think about Moses. I'm gonna give you two brief stories and then one longer biblical story, and that's how we'll uh that's that's how we'll end this episode. So Moses was God's man. The Bible said God talked with Moses the way two friends talked to each other. Man, they were close. They had a special relationship, a very special bond. Moses was the man of God. But Moses sinned against the Lord, and as a result, the consequences that Moses faced were he was not allowed to go into the promised land. God forgave Moses, God restored Moses to relationship, God reconciled Moses to himself, and then for 40 years, Moses had to live with the consequences of his actions. And at the end of that 40 years, Moses was taken home to be with the Lord, never having stepped foot in the promised land. But God's grace was bigger because you know what the greater, wonderful picture is a thousand years later, or whatever, 1500 years later, whenever it was, at the Mount of Transfiguration, Peter gets to see, Peter would later report in his epistle, I was with the Lord on the mountain, and I saw his glory revealed. When Christ was transfigured on the mountain, Moses was there with him. And so Moses did enter the promised land, but it was just way different, and it was way later, and it was after he was glorified, and he entered the promised land to meet with Jesus on the night before his arrest and crucifixion. And so God doesn't always end the story, write the end of the story the way that we would write it. And but there's consequences that sometimes linger. Moses is an example of that. God was gracious to Moses. He forgave Moses, he continued to use Moses, he spoke so kindly of Moses. He brought Moses with him into the transfiguration. But there were aspects of Moses' actions and decisions that the consequences lingered. Second story. This one's a little uh give a little more comment on this. In the life of David, if you pick up in 2 Samuel, along about 2 Samuel, I think about chapter 9, 8, 9, somewhere right in there. King David shows kindness to Saul's son, Mephibosheth. And there's this really cool picture where he brings him into his home, sits him at his table, and it's a and it's a beautiful picture of a man who is aligned with the heart and grace of God. Uh this was the grandson of a king who David, everybody expected David would want to kill this young man, but he doesn't. He restores the relationship between the two houses and brings this young man Mephibosheth into his home. The very next chapter shows Israel going to war. And in that war, Israel fights some pretty intense enemies. And it's a crazy story, and you see the, you see just the courage and leadership and valor of Joab and his men, and it's I mean, it's an intense picture of battle. The next chapter begins with David being at home the following spring. It says, in the spring of the year, when kings go off to war, David is at home. And David's at home, and what David does is while he's at home, he commits adultery with Bathsheba. You might be familiar with that story. Bathsheba is the wife to one of David's uh elite operators. Like there's this group of tier one guys, think of DevGrew, think of, you know, SEAL Team 6, think of think of that, think of DevGrew, think of Delta, um, or even think of the like tier two units, like the Army Rangers or something like that. Um, or think of, you know, uh that special operations world. This guy that operates in that world, he was one of David's mighty men. His name is Uriah. Uriah had been with David for a long time, man. They had fought a lot of wars together. At this point, David's about my age. He's in his 50s. David had been with Uriah since David was in his 20s, y'all. That's if I now go check me on this work, but I'm pretty sure Uriah came to David in the cave up in the cave at Adullum when David was on the run from Saul, which would have been when David was, he might have been 30. He might have been 30 years old, 20s, maybe 30. So Uriah's been with David for at least 20 years. And Uriah's married to this girl. Her name's Bathsheba, and apparently apparently she's just beautiful. And David had like a bunch of wives and concubines. David was a super immoral dude. Uh super immoral. He was a man, he was a it's crazy because you you get hope from a guy like David because it says he's a man after God's own heart. Just like with Moses, it says he, you know, he walked with God and talked with God as a man speaks with a friend. We learn from these men that they're not flawless. They're like us. We identify with them in their weaknesses. But David was not a good person, man. He was like sleeping around, and he had these sex slaves. They call them concubines, but they're just sexually trafficked women, you know? And it's crazy because he's the psalmist, you know, and it and and you just realize how broken humanity can be. And so David, he he branches out, man. He's like, I'm gonna, I'm gonna have sex with Bathsheba. With my my guy Uriah, my man, my dog, we've been to war together. We fought many battles together, we've been on many operations together. He had fought alongside of Uriah so much, they're so close. And David, while Uriah's off fighting David's battles, David goes and has sex with Uriah's wife. I don't know the nature of it. I don't know if she didn't have a say-so in the matter because he's the king. I don't know if she seduced him. I don't know. We don't know. It doesn't give us those details. I've heard guys speculate in every kind of way. Some guys say, oh, she's on the roof naked, she knew he was watching. Other guys say, heck no, man. David was, she was just in the privacy of her home, but because of his vantage point, nobody was private from the king. I've heard it told both ways. I don't know. We're not told. I just know she was complicit to have sex with him, either forcibly or willingly. That part doesn't really matter, I don't think, to the s to the to the narrative or the story. David committed adultery, and then this is where the story gets so dark. Okay, so dark. David gets Uriah to come home from the battle. And he sends for Uriah. Uriah comes home, he tries to get Uriah to go have sex with his own wife. That way he can say, Oh, she's pregnant. Oh, oh, oh, I'm sorry. She sends and tells David, Hey, I'm pregnant. You got me pregnant. So David sends for her husband, brings him home, tells the husband, go have sex with your wife, go spend the night at home. I just need a report from the battle. Thanks for coming and telling me now go have sex with your wife. And then Uriah's like, I'm not gonna do that. My men are in battle. I need to be in battle. That should have been the mindset David had, but it wasn't. It's the mindset Uriah had because he's the more honorable man. And so Uriah, he practices not just fidelity to his wife, he practices fidelity to the Lord because he felt like God's call for his life was to be a warrior, to be, to be in, in military service, to be on this operation. And so he's like, no, I need to go back to my men. And so he refuses. And so, and David even gets him drunk. David has him get like he gets him drunk, thinking, okay, his discretion will be off, then he'll sleep with his wife, and he won't do it. Your eye goes back to battle. David then, listen, y'all. David has a group of men sent on a suicide mission and has them all wiped out. So imagine a team of dev grow operators or a Delta Force unit. Or imagine uh, imagine a SEAL team, like one team, a uh like a fire team of Marines, whatever, like a group of guys, and you have the entire rest of the fighting force isolate those guys and then abandon them. That's what David did. He had, and Joab, his main officer, the captain of his guard, the head guy, he's he's the one that like carries out the order. So it's a dark story, man. David has a group of guys murdered, essentially. This guy named Uriah. David has him killed, but to make it not look so obvious, he has a bunch of other guys killed, all guys who are his close friends, companions, partners, guys he's fought with, fought alongside of. They're his, they're like his tier one guys. He has them all killed, sends them on a suicide mission. That way, Uriah doesn't know he's dead. David can quote unquote comfort Bathsheba, and then she can have a baby. Well, everybody figures it out, you know, obviously. And y'all, it's one of the darkest stories in the Bible to me. Like to think of killing a group of my buddies like that, that's just dark. But then to think that this dude killed a group of his closest friends because he had had sex with one of their wives, and then he wanted to cover it all up. It's just dark. And so God confronts David over his sin, and David's tore up about it. We see true repentance. If you go read Psalm 51, you see true repentance in David's heart over this. He says, Against you, Lord, against you and you only have I sinned and done what is evil in your sight, that you may be proved just when you speak and justified when you judge. So he's like, God is just, his judgment is right, whatever I like, I'll receive from the Lord whatever he gives me because I deserve it. And uh, but he also pleads to God for mercy in that Psalm, Psalm 51. It's a psalm of repentance, asking God for mercy. He's like, Um, have mercy on me, O Lord, according to your unfailing love, according to your mercy. Mercy and your kindness, blot out my transgression. I know my sin. It's always before me. And so he he he he asks his he asks of the Lord. He asks of the Lord, purge me with hyssop, wash me, and I'll be white as snow. He's asking God to cleanse him. He sees his sin and he repents. And so go back to what we talked about last week. He is repentant. He is seeking restored fellowship with God. But guess what? He cannot be reconciled to Uriah because he killed him. He can't be reconciled to those other dudes that he had killed. It's a mess. And so he gets forgiveness from the Lord. He's reconciled to God. But now there's going to be the lingering consequences of his sin. He's got a widow to take care of because he killed her husband. He got her pregnant. The baby dies. The baby dies. And some people think it's God's hand of judgment, which that's another conversation. Like, because I don't want to get somebody screwed up theologically and think that if you make mistakes, God's going to kill your baby. That is not the moral at any point in the story. It's not how God judges. But God is sovereign. So God uh God brings judgment on David and He and He actually says to him, Not only judgment coming on you, it's coming on your entire house. I forgive you. You're restored, but the sword will never depart from your house. There will be conflict in your home because of the way you've chosen to live your life. God forgave David. God restored David. God loved David. God was with David. But y'all, the rest of David's life, literally the rest of his life, was a train wreck. And so what happens is his kids start, I mean, acting out. One son named Amnon rapes a half-sister named Tamar, because David had baby mamas. He had kids by a bunch of baby mamas. So he had all these half siblings. So this dude, Amnon, rapes this girl, Tamar, who's his sister. And then her brother Absalom, who's her full brother, they got the same mama. He he goes, it's a crazy story, man. And then it gets out to her brother Absalom. Absalom takes her, puts her away, and provides her with protection, but it's a sad story because she's never allowed to marry, I think. If I remember the way the story goes, if I remember reading it right, she never gets to marry. It's just a crazy story. It's like, man, what a sad because that dude, Amnon, when he rapes her, after he rapes her, it says he hates her. Like he looks at her with disdain. He's like, you're just a piece of trash. It's awful. And so her brother, her full brother, Absalom, he's like, all right, all right, we'll we'll take care of this. Well, Absalom's a dog, man. He's like, he's a fighter. That dude's a dog. He's not a good person, but he got some dog in him. He waits like two or three years and then sets up a meeting where he ends up killing this brother Amnon, kills him. And so David freaks out about it, and then David sends Absalom to live in like exile for the next three years. And then Absalom sends a message to David and says, What the heck, man? I just took up for my sister. What are you doing? Am I gonna have to live out here in exile? You know, like, and then David's like, No, no, no, no, you come, I'm sorry. Like, come and be with me in my palace. And so they reunite. It's been like three, no, I'm thinking it's been like five years since David's seen his son Absalom. They reunite, but then David tells Absalom, All right, all right, you're back, you're home, you're living in the palace. And then he doesn't talk to him anymore. So Absalom ends up turning on David, and then there's this civil war that breaks out. Absalom gets killed by Joab, the same guy that carried out the mission to get Uriah killed. It's just dark and broken. And you go, Good Lord, you're reading it and you're going, this is a jacked-up story. And then David gets old and does a couple stupid things, and then he gets old and he's so old that he can't even get out of bed and he dies. And you go, wait a minute. David's a man after God's own heart? Yes. But the consequences of his actions destroyed his family. Y'all, every single week of my life, I talk to teenagers whose families have come apart and their lives are dysfunctional. When people make decisions that affect others, you can give forgiveness for that, but sometimes the consequences just linger. Sometimes for a while, sometimes forever. Forever. A man cheats on his wife and she leaves him and she remarries. She might forgive him. God forgives him. He becomes repentant. The consequences are he ruined his marriage and he can't be married to her again, you know? Something like that. Somebody, somebody gets drunk and goes driving, they have a wreck and they kill somebody or end up paralyzed. Man, God can forgive them for that, but the that doesn't bring that dead person back, or that doesn't unparalyze them. Now you got a quadruplegic who's, you know, so damaged. Um so so let's say, let's say that the guy has a car wreck and and ends up as a paraplegic in a wheelchair, and he says, Lord, forgive me for drinking and driving. I killed somebody and now I'm in a wheelchair. And God says, I forgive you, I love you, I'll give you a meaningful life, we'll make the most out of this, we'll work all of this for my glory and for your good. And there can be a lot of redeeming value that comes in that guy's story, but that doesn't get him out of the wheelchair in his life, and it don't bring the dead person back, you know. Sometimes consequences linger. So when that kid threatened my family and his parents said, Where's the grace? The grace is that I forgive him. And that we can be brothers in Christ and we can forgive each other and move on, but I'm not gonna let him round my daughters. I'm not gonna send that message to them. It's consequences to his actions. That ain't on me, that's on him. He shouldn't have picked that phone up and called my daughter the things he called her and accused her of the things he accused her of and threatened her in the way he threatened her. If he wouldn't have done that, we wouldn't be having this conversation. You know, by the way, the David story, even after David dies, the consequences linger because there's a civil war that breaks out uh when his son Solomon ascends the throne. There's two boys, two of his boys are kind of vying for kingship and they end up fighting. I mean, it's crazy. It's crazy. It goes on past his life. You see that a lot too, where one person's actions affect multiple generations. But anyway, the other story is there's a scene in the New Testament book of Acts where there's a missionary journey that Paul's on. He's traveling, and there's a guy named John Mark. He's the guy that wrote the Gospel of Mark. And John Mark is one of Paul's guys, but he's come onto the team by way of um Barnabas. Barnabas is John Mark's uncle, and Barnabas is Paul's uh partner in ministry. And so they go on this, and they would always take young dudes with them, and they're always like discipling, mentoring, and training up young dudes. And so they take John Mark on this missionary trip. They're gonna be on the road for months, maybe years, traveling and preaching, and they're gonna go to hostile territories through the wilderness. At one point, Paul was like, it's so bad. There were wild animals out there that were trying to kill us. There were people that robbed us. It was hard, man. It was hard sled and it was rough life ministry. And that dude, John Mark, he quit and went home. He's like, I'm out. I didn't sign up for this. It's too hard. And he quit him. He quit the team. And so sometime later, he wants to come back on the team. And Paul's like, No, you're not, you're done, man. You quit us in our hour of need. You can't be on this team. And Barnabas is like, what the heck, man? Where's the grace? Can't you forgive him? I forgive him. Paul's like, yeah, I forgive him, but he's not gonna be on our team. And Paul doesn't let him back on the team. And so Barnabas is like, all right, I'm out. And it says a sharp disagreement arose between them and they parted ways. And so Barnabas goes and takes John Mark, and then Paul he does his own thing and they go in different directions. And so you see the consequences of one man's actions have far-reaching effects. Now, the cool thing to that story is Barnabas was faithful to the Lord. Paul was faithful to the Lord. Barnabas trained up John Mark. Uh, Paul, I'm pulling into Ronnie Mason's sporting goods store here, where you can look at guns, fishing supplies, and buy dog food for your hunting dogs, is right here in Topton, North Carolina, beside Andrews, a couple miles up the road from my house. A little piece of culture right here. Um, I'm gonna go in and see my buddy Ronnie. Ronnie's in his 70s. He's a he's a mountain man, he's a hillbilly. Um, but anyhow, Silas went, so let me make sure I get all these names right. Paul started a new team. He had Silas with him eventually, he had Luke with him, he had uh Timothy, Titus, Barnabas went and took John Mark, and everybody did effective ministry. And it's really cool. At the end of 2 Timothy, years later, Paul says, send John John Mark to me. He's profitable for ministry. That dude, he came around. And so we see that and in the end, there was restored fellowship and friendship between those guys. Um, and so sometimes the consequences linger for a long time, but then even those consequences go away, which is really cool. And uh and I'll close with a story or two about that. But but before I do that, let me just say uh when you read 2 Timothy, Paul names several people. I read back through it this morning thinking about this, and he named some folks in positive light, he named some folks in neutral light, and he named some folks in negative light. So he says some negative things about some guys in there. He's like, you know, he talks about Demas, and we did a whole episode on Demas. Demas is in love with this present world, he's abandoned us. And he talks about some guys that are caught up, got caught up in bickering, and I would, I would categorize them as people that bicker over secondary doctrine or or conspiracy theorists that get caught up in political stuff, or you know, something like that. Like they he talks about these guys, and then he talks about some other guys that uh are po in a positive light, but they're just not with him. He's like, man, I'm in 2 Timothy, Paul's about to die. Uh and he he's writing this letter to Timothy, and he says, you know, so-and-so has gone over here to do ministry, so-and-so has gone over here to do ministry, so-and-so has abandoned me. Luke is here with me, but I need you to send, and he says, I need you to send John Mark, because he's become useful to me for ministry. So you've got this distinction that among even other effective ministers, the relationship has been restored to the point that he wants him there. John John Mark is now needed and wanted, even though Paul had had separated from him earlier. And so sometimes the consequences linger for a long time, and then eventually, even those consequences go away. But that sometimes that's on God's timeline, not on mine. And so with David all the way to the end of his life, and even into the next generation, the consequences linger. With John Mark, the consequences last a long time, and eventually time heals those wounds, and John Mark has a chance to prove himself and he does it. Uh with Moses, the consequences linger all the way to the end of his life, and then we see this really cool picture of restoration when he appears with Jesus in the Mount of Transfiguration. And so in our lives, there may be times where there's consequences. You know, that story I told at the beginning, maybe one day there'll be uh some restored fellowship uh or restore I don't know. I don't know. I don't know what God's gonna do. But I'm op my heart will always be open to it, but then there's certain things now I have a deep conviction that I will not, you know, that I won't compromise to just to just to try to make things more comfortable for everybody, if that makes sense. And then I think uh I I can think of stories, I think of one story where a guy, again, I'm gonna be cryptic, and I said I wanted to close with a story or two. At least tell one. There was a guy that had come to me several years ago and he said, Hey man, I want to do what we need to do to make amends and put things right. This is a different story. And that was because a few years prior to that, there had been some conflict that had had turned into broken fellowship between some believers. At the middle of that conflict was a lady that was causing a lot of conflict. Like she had created a lot of dissension within a couple of ministries, two or three ministries, and Snowbird was one of them, and Red Oak was one of them, and a couple of churches, and and she had created a lot of division and strife and conflict. And we there was a point where we had to agree to disagree with some people and say, hey, let's go our separate ways. Some of those people eventually came back around and said, Hey, what do we got to do to restore fellowship? And it was really cool. We sat down and and and worked through things together and were able to restore fellowship. So sometimes it it takes some time, and the main thing is this. Here's what I want to end with. You cannot live with a seed of bitterness, and you cannot live with the with the attitude of vengeance. You're like when you have broken fellowship, or there's we agree to disagree, and things linger and we gotta go our separate ways, and it's hard to reconcile. You cannot let bitterness control you. So when I think about the situations in my life where there's long-term broken fellowship, and I think, man, I'm we're supposed to have a ministry of reconciliation. Why can't we work this out? Here's what I'll say: my personal battle is it becomes not a battle against this other person. Like the story I told about the young man that caused a lot of trauma for my family, emotional and psychological. I hate to use the word trauma. I guess thrown around nowadays, but he attacked my family. What I had to do is make sure my heart was right and I don't have any bitterness towards him or his parents. It's just a matter of fact. We can't, you can't be here on this facility. You know, that that that's that's the battle that we gotta fight. I'm not gonna be bitter, I'm not gonna be mad at this person. Um So I, you know, I think with Paul, that was probably his struggle with John Mark. I I don't want to be bitter. I'm not mad at him, I don't hate him, but he can't be on my team. That takes some discretion, some discernment, some wisdom, and some humility. And I think John Mark had those things eventually. He grew into those things, and I think Paul fought for those things too. And then we see conflict with Paul and other people. Paul and Peter have conflict. You know, Paul says, Man, I had to confront Peter to his face in front of people. So conflict is part of the Christian experience. It's part of how the body of Christ works. We need to do it well. We need to strive to extend forgiveness. It takes two for peace and one for war. I can wage war on somebody else, but in order for there to be peace between me and another person, we gotta both come to the table. Reconciliation requires two people. Forgiveness and repentance require one. You put it all together, you get reconciliation. But I can strive to live at peace with all people, but I can also agree to disagree at times. What I cannot do is allow bitterness to control me. I cannot have a the Lord says in the book of Romans, vengeance is mine. And so if there's something that's been done against you. Now this gets into a whole other category. And we mentioned this in the first in the last episode. But, you know, you were wronged by someone who legitimately harmed you. Leave that vengeance to the Lord. Don't, don't, not only don't be controlled by bitterness, but don't be controlled and consumed by a desire for vengeance. Release that into the hands of God and trust him with it. And so don't let bitterness control you and strive to live at peace. And know that sometimes you may have to live with extend extending and extend uh extensive or extending um consequences to to actions and behaviors. And just know the Lord's the Lord's got that. He's he's good with that. He he can control it as long as your heart is right before him. I hope that you find meaning in this episode, in both of these episodes, that they're helpful. The next couple episodes we'll be turning back to the interview style. We got some, like I said, I'm excited about some conversations we're having. Um even today, as this episode drops, we are interviewing uh a person that I'm real excited for y'all to hear from, a missionary who faced death and um persecution in the most real way, uh, death of family members, uh, persecution, martyrdom, and has an incredible and dynamic testimony, and I'm excited and is a very dear and close friend to this ministry and to my family. Excited for y'all to hear that. And uh yeah, we got a good lineup ahead of us. Next week we'll be meeting with a young lady who's uh who's in that episode will be a few weeks out, but who has a dynamic testimony of God's grace in her life. And she also happens to be uh part of the turning point organization, so uh we scheduled this before the Charlie Kirk murder, but it'll be interesting to get her take on some of that as well. But that's not why we're bringing her on. We're bringing her on to to hear her story, which is phenomenal. She's a kid that grew up coming to SWO, coming to Snowbird, and um anyway, God's done some cool stuff in her life, some been through some amazing difficulties and has come out just faithfully following Jesus. And I'm excited for you to hear from her. Anyhow, um thank you guys, all of you. Um one personal announcement, I will say, my son Tucker Holloway is in the transfer portal. So um, those of you that keep up with with his football, he you will not see him in the box score at Virginia Tech because he's not he's not playing the rest of the season. He'll take a red shirt. Uh he's in the portal and he'll transfer somewhere. So this will be a fun journey. We'll see how where he ends up. I'm excited to see what God has for him in this next chapter. But I would ask that you pray for him. I would also ask that you continue to pray for our missionaries and specifically my daughter and granddaughter and son-in-law, that God would continue to give them favor and the four ladies from Snowbird that are there serving with him, just trusting the Lord to do awesome things in this season of ministry. And then here, lastly, here at Snowbird, we just had our men's conference uh two weekends ago. It was awesome, incredible. We focused on penal substitutionary atonement. We we mentioned that in a previous episode. We had, I don't know, about 500 men in-house. It was awesome. The Lord did awesome things, incredible things, and uh really enjoyed the weekend. Great conversations. God moved. It was wonderful. We've got three fall retreats coming up back to back to back, boom, boom, boom, the next three weekends, followed by our fall marriage conference. And uh so lots going on at Snowbird, and we're excited about what God's doing. And so just ask you to pray for the ministry here. And if you've never been here, come and be a part of it. Come attend, get on get on the website, uh swoutfitters.com or download the app and and uh see what we've got coming up, something that maybe you'd like to attend, reach out, holler at us. And if nothing else, just come up here, we'll give you a tour, we'll show you around the place, and uh we'll have a good time. It'll be awesome. Thank y'all for listening to No Sanity Required, and we'll see you next week.
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