No Sanity Required
No Sanity Required is a weekly podcast hosted by Brody Holloway and Snowbird Outfitters. Each week, we engage culture and personal stories with a Gospel-driven perspective. Our mission is to equip the Church to pierce the darkness with the light of Christ by sharing the vision, ideas, and passions God has used to carry us through 26 years of student ministry. Find more content at swoutfitters.com.
No Sanity Required
Romans 8 Unpacked | Behind the Scenes of SWO25
What happens after camp ends? Join the Snowbird teaching team as they reflect on summer, sharing insights from Romans 8 teachings and stories of transformation that occurred throughout the summer sessions.
- Going deeper into Romans 8 and wishing they had more time to unpack its richness
- The challenge of addressing technology and AI with students and youth pastors
- How sermon preparation is like swimming in an ancient current - both being shaped by and guiding others through Scripture
- JB's powerful story of her sister unexpectedly attending camp
- Reflections on students coming to faith throughout the summer
- The legacy of faithful ministry and impact across generations
- Finding humor in ministry - including the infamous eagle costume worship story and the Rob/Spencer confusion
Send us your Snowbird story for the upcoming NSR Stories book at the link in the description!
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Click here to get our Colossians Bible study.
Welcome to no Sanity Required from the Ministry of Snowbird Wilderness Outfitters. A podcast about the Bible, culture and stories from around the globe.
Speaker 2:Hey, hello everyone. I'm here with the elite team.
Speaker 3:I'm just kidding. Elite membership.
Speaker 2:But we this episode is going to be kind of like a behind the scenes look at summer, kind of an overview of our teachings and just the summer in general. And then I thought it would be cool to ask them maybe to go into detail about some things that they wish they could have gone more into depth in their sessions and their sermons or things that you know maybe were left out but they wish they could have really touched on and zoomed in on. So we just thought this would be a kind of cool series, like maybe, now that you're home, if you came to summer camp or listen to the sessions, this is just kind of one step further. If you came to summer camp or listen to the sessions, this is just kind of one step further. So, yeah, this this summer was one of my favorites.
Speaker 2:Romans eight is what we covered and I mean you can't miss really. And our teaching was phenomenal. I thought it was great. Breakouts were great. Rob, I had a. I had a Spencer and Rob moment. You know how a lot of people say Maddie Welch and I look alike. Maddie said that multiple times over the summer people would come up to her and be like, hey, great job on your breakout.
Speaker 4:So I feel that's how it feels.
Speaker 3:I feel your pain. I feel your pain. The bad thing is, people confuse me and Zach, you realize that people Wait for real. Oh, yes, I thought you realize? You realize that people, oh yes yeah, because they just associate the stage Zach's leading worship with. Zach's teaching too, so I think that really confuses them. And then I'm teaching. People are not. People are not perceptive, a lot of people not all people. But a lot of people don't observe, they don't have situational awareness, they just don't have situational awareness 2020 vision.
Speaker 3:They just don't have it, yeah but speaking of funny things, uh, the funniest thing that happened all summer happened the last night of the last week. The last night of the last week there was a kid. This kid's family is very connected to swo. He's a. This is a snowbird kid. Now he's never lived here. Uh, his dad used to work here, but not since this kid's been born and uh, this kid's way out of the box he's. He's a really big personality, a very funny, quirky kid. So on Fridays we practice each day of the week at at snowbird is like a theme day. So you know, this year I think we had camo day. Jersey day was Tuesdays, camo day was Thursdays. What was Wednesday?
Speaker 5:Guys and girls black and white.
Speaker 3:Oh, that's right, that's right. Guys and girls, black and white, um, but Friday is always freedom Friday, so the other days will change year to year. Friday is always Freedom Friday. So you see a lot of American flags, you see a lot of eagles. This kid bought one of those blow-up costumes. It was an eagle, a bald eagle. So you know it's got like the costume's got its own little fan Did you see him?
Speaker 2:No, I don't think I did. You didn't see this kid? Are you kidding?
Speaker 3:So he's got, you know, it's got a little fan back here that just blows and it inflates the costume. So the head's about this big, you know, and it's, and it's a big eagle, and right under the beak is a little clear cellophane window that he's looking out of.
Speaker 5:And so did you see, oh yeah absolutely, and so did you see him the last night.
Speaker 3:Yes, so he. So before the service on Friday night I'm talking to his dad, who's a really good personal friend of mine, and the kid walks up and he said they're spraying fart spray in my costume. So apparently some of the kids in his youth group had come up behind him, which of course they did.
Speaker 1:That's what any of us would have done. That's hilarious, and he's in this inflated thing.
Speaker 5:You can spray it into the fan Into the fan that's keeping the thing inflated, and so they're spraying it.
Speaker 2:That is brutal and he's like gagging, he's like. I mean, have you guys ever smelled bird spray?
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:It smells horrid.
Speaker 3:It's awful it's just like dirty, rotten eggs. Yeah, they're like decaying. So he's in this costume, okay. So as I walk off, he's, and the service is about to start. You know, uh, friday night pre-service is like a crazy wild dance party. So he, he's right, he takes his eagle costume and he's in the dance party. He's on stage, jesus freaking it and all that.
Speaker 3:So the service ends and on friday nights so we don't do a traditional invitation or altar, call it slow. Um, we typically, after the sermon, we have an extended time of worship through songs. So each night we'll sing a couple of songs, but on friday night it's an extended time. We invite students. Hey, if you'd like to come forward and just worship together, it's just an opportunity for them to sort of respond. We don't have like counselors, we don't lead them in a prayer, it's literally just a song service. But rather than sit in your seat, you can come forward. So the the front of the stage just fills up. You know, 10 or 12 people deep it's going up the aisles. This kid makes it to the front. He is directly in front of thank the lord for the lord's sense of humor in front of spencer davis. So spencer's on the bass.
Speaker 3:This kid is boom right there in the eagle costume and he was like, he's like raising his little wings to worship the lord, and you know he couldn't do this, so it's like he's like, and he's just singing for three four songs, that was the out of the gray or uh tending the grave song yeah made for more made for more and everybody's just.
Speaker 3:You know like there's that part in the course where people's hands would be racing and they're doing this and he's going and that big old thing, that big eagle head and he's in the front. He's in front of everybody.
Speaker 2:Oh my goodness, I was done I mean I was done.
Speaker 3:I was in the back I I always on friday nights I come around and stand at the sound booth because I just love to watch that worship and that last friday night I couldn't worship but I was very entertained it was awesome that kid was worshiping the lord farce praying on terribly awkward uh, I have one other funny story and it is I'm gonna kick it off to rob.
Speaker 3:It's about the rob spencer confusion okay so rob played the ultimate finally after 20 years he played the ultimate joke prank on a kid, so on a chaperone that kid a chaperone.
Speaker 2:Hopefully that person a chaperone hopefully that person listens to NSR and is going to find this out right now and can sleep Still still blinking into a light somewhere, okay.
Speaker 4:So I mean, everybody knows, for 20 years of my life there's been this comparison confusion and I never really bothered me. To me it's always just opportunity for humor. This comparison confusion and I never really bothered me. To me it's always just opportunity for humor. There's times where it's annoying, when the time that it annoys me, when people don't try, like they try to be funny but they're just being lazy, like, like especially staff, like eight weeks into the summer one of them will be like hey, spence, oh sorry, and I'm like no, no stop.
Speaker 1:Yeah, come up with a good joke or just let it go.
Speaker 4:Um, but so you know, adults, youth pastors, you know I, I I get it, uh, and so I normally I will. Either if somebody compliments my sermon from that morning when Spencer preached, I'll just say thank you and pass it along to Spencer, or or, you know, sometimes I'm like no, actually. Okay, that was Spencer, he's also the bass player. We're different humans. But this kid, I mean, all week long he was doing it like not once, not twice it was not to be funny, not to be funny.
Speaker 4:Just every time we interacted he was saying I just can't tell you guys apart. And so finally, I mean it was I think it was Friday, and we're a group of us were standing outside of the in between the coop in the metal building, and he comes up and he does it again and I said, all right, man, I'm gonna let you in on the snowbird secret. I said there, there, there aren't two of us, like, there's just one. And he was like so are you? Is it rob or spencer? And I said neither. I said my real name is timmy mccracken, and spencer and rob are made up characters that I play. I said, said just as a joke. And he went what? Now? Spencer had just walked away from this group 30 seconds ago and so he's going. What? I was like, yeah, man, but I said you cannot tell anybody that my real name is Timmy McCracken. If you go to our webpage, there's two pictures of me, one Rob, one Spencer.
Speaker 4:And so he finally walked. I mean, he had just turned around and walked away and Spencer came back to the group and I said all right, spencer, we're wearing he's. I'm in jeans, he's in shorts, I'm in a black shirt, he's in a green shirt. Whatever I said, you need to go walk right in front of that kid, turn around and say hey, for real, don't tell anybody. And he was like. I was like, just go do it, trust me. And so I hid behind the tree and I watched spencer walk over to him. He gets in front of him, he turns around and says hey, man, for real, don't tell anybody.
Speaker 4:And then he goes inside the building and that kid you could see his head just exploding because, he I mean, we had just talked 10 seconds ago and he, like, does a slow turn over over to where we had just been talking and I'm behind the tree so. I just hide and I had every intention on circling back and be like hey, man, I was just messing with you, but I didn't.
Speaker 5:That's what you're doing now. That's what I'm doing so.
Speaker 4:Timmy McCracken is not a real person.
Speaker 3:He's not a real person. There is a.
Speaker 4:Timmy.
Speaker 2:McCracken out there somewhere.
Speaker 3:Timmy McCracken out there somewhere. Yeah, yeah, man, here's what I don't get about the confusion between y'all, because everybody does it. I mean it's crazy how many people do it and we were watching this weekend, so I bought this for y'all.
Speaker 3:I bought a movie for you and laylee for the gers okay so for egg, I bought, uh, we were gonna rent the new how to train your dragon movie and uh, because I'd heard it's really good, so I went to rent it for like five bucks more, you just buy it. I was like I'll buy it and then this sometime this winter the girls can watch it. So we watched it saturday night and, uh, it's very entertaining and but they missed some of the characters from the cartoon version that I feel like they missed it on some. Well, the cup, the couple who are twins, the guy and the girl that are twins, uh, she's like kind of shorter and frumpy and he's tall and skinny. And there's a scene, there's a moment where the the guy goes gobbler, goes wait, y'all are twins. And she's like, yeah, our mom can't even tell us apart. They're like this, he's tall and skinny, she's frumpy, girl boy, you know, she's like, yeah, our mom can't even tell us apart. I'm like that's Spencer and Rob. How can you not tell them apart?
Speaker 3:I wonder which one I am and somebody said so we had the tall skinny guy. Oh, thank you, thank you.
Speaker 4:You're stoic. The chief, the chief, yes, thank you. Thank you um spencer is uh hiccup he's not here to defend himself. That's right.
Speaker 3:That's right but, uh, you know, so we've had, we've had, uh, several sets of twins working on staff through the years. But we had a set of twins the last couple of years, lauren and Annabelle Evans, who are not identical but they're really close, yes, and you have to get to know them so I can tell them apart if I'm spending time with them, if I go two weeks without interacting with them, then I'm like, oh, man, I'm back to starting over, yeah.
Speaker 3:And so when they stayed at our house a lot of times on the weekends they spend a night at our house and they've been here for a year because they were an institute. I understand people getting them confused right, sure, they're twins they're twins.
Speaker 3:They're not identical but they're twins. I understand people getting me and my brother confused to this day. People and that's because we're in the same but we don't look that much alike. But like I get it, your brothers, you're in the same family. My grandmother would get us confused. I know who. I know which one's which. I just get whatever. How people get you and I'm I'm on a rant right now in a audience get it right.
Speaker 3:It doesn't make sense to me. I don't understand it. You're both bald, you both have a trimmed beard and you're about the same height. Are you a whole lot taller than him, though?
Speaker 4:Oh, by centimeters.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yes.
Speaker 4:He comes up to about here on me.
Speaker 3:Other than height and hair and beard. I don't get it. I don't get it, yeah, but it happens. Anyway, that was a funny highlight of summer.
Speaker 4:Yes, well played, thank you, thank you.
Speaker 3:Week 10 was full of good gags. Let's pivot. Yeah, what was the other thing?
Speaker 4:Yeah, I think that's all the time we have.
Speaker 3:That was fun, thanks for tuning in Next week. Next week.
Speaker 2:I think it would be cool if you guys just have any maybe insights or thoughts of things that you wanted to maybe go deeper on in one of your sessions, or just maybe the topic in the book of Romans 8 in general. I know, zach, you did multiple youth pastor breakouts and a student breakout. Is there anything that sticks out to you of like man? I wish I could have a whole other session on this or, like I really wish I could dive in on this topic.
Speaker 5:Yeah, I think that's great. I mean, I think especially with the nature of like teaching a breakout session, because you're supposed to, in less than 30 minutes, cover a topic completely.
Speaker 1:Yep.
Speaker 3:It's a TED.
Speaker 5:Talk.
Speaker 5:It is, you know, one thing that I do think is going to be really important that we talk about soon, and I had this summer, for the first time, we did like a Thursday afternoon where we did a conversation with youth pastors on technology, and I think that did also carry over to the breakout that I taught to students on loving the Lord with our minds and what are we doing?
Speaker 5:How are we thinking well and honoring the Lord in what we think and how we think? And one of the things that I think we're going to have to address soon is talking about AI with students and student pastors. Students and student pastors, you know, because I do think that we're going into a completely different, like uncharted territory, this huge social experiment that we're just playing out as it comes along, and I think, for Christians especially, we're going to have to be thinking through that, especially in light of, you know, if we've been called to honor the Lord, you know, to love the Lord with our heart, soul, minds and strength. How are we going to do that when the culture is getting way easier to be way dumber? So I think, and especially even with pastors, pastors are having to deal with it and how they're going to use.
Speaker 5:AI, whether they're going to use it for putting together sermons and illustrations or all sorts of stuff. So that's one of the things that came up every week that I would have in conversations with students and student pastors. I think we'll I'm we're gonna have to address next year at least, maybe before that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I actually did use AI for one of my element talks. I looked up if you were Satan, if you were the devil, how would you distract me? And it actually was really spot on, and so I said that to the girls. I said I looked this up on ai and I can't remember exactly. It was like a list of 10, but it was like I would distract you by your phone. I'll distract you. It was like spot on.
Speaker 4:I was like dang, that's kind of crazy kind of scary, yeah, and at the end it was dash satan yeah, XOXO Satan.
Speaker 2:I'm like wait a second and it would increase your dependence on AI. No, are you kidding me? Literally, it was crazy.
Speaker 3:There was a we're trying to put together a job description recently.
Speaker 5:Oh yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and.
Speaker 4:Oh, I yeah. So yeah, we were just writing some job descriptions and there hadn't for that same position, there hadn't already been one made, so I was making it from scratch, and and so I was staring at a blank, blank page and like, okay, I need, I just need a reference point, and so it's still so novel to me. I was like all right, uh, you know, write a job description for guest services at Snowbird Outfitters and or no.
Speaker 4:At first I just said uh, guest services position, and it spit some stuff out and I was like, okay, this is a good starting point. There's a lot to change. But you, I got adam and I working on together, so the ball was rolling. And then I was like uh, and he was the one typing on his computer and so I was like I wonder if I said at a christian camp, how that would change it. And so I did christian camp and it was like oh, I thought oh, it's gonna be super cheesy. And I was like man, it's pretty good. And then I was like I wonder if I say at snowbirdbird? And so I put in this job at Snowbird Wilderness Outfitters. And it was so in the millisecond that the little circle thought it found that line and put it in its suggested job description.
Speaker 2:That's crazy.
Speaker 1:I mean verbatim that part's scary, it was like he just put the period on the job description so scary.
Speaker 4:Yeah, that is wild. Yeah, woo yeah, so it is scary.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 4:And the scary part is it is super useful.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 4:And some of it is like just a more advanced Google search. That's right, and so it's not like you're going to call it. It's not all of it bad. Right, You're looking for information, but you'd see the danger inherent to it, especially when you get into like sermon prep right Because and I mean, while we're talking about it, you know, what scares me is because I've done it where I asked it.
Speaker 4:I've taught a lot on the book of Hebrews. I do that for our Institute. We, you know, we preach through it as a church, um, and so I, I asked it to write a sermon or a lesson. I think it was when I was for the Institute. I was like, write a lesson on this chapter of Hebrews, and I mean it was from, and I, you know, put from a certain perspective, whatever and I mean it was so close to the outline that I already had and it was so good, and there were things where.
Speaker 4:I was like, oh yeah, it absolutely said this better because it's pulling from all these other resources. But what scares me, and that is specific to preaching, is the instruction we have in the Bible for preaching. It's not just come up with this material, it's set the believers an example, like not only should you be articulating this truth, you should be demonstrating this truth, and part of being able to demonstrate the truth is that you're coming under that truth, being shaped by it, being molded by it. While you're crafting a sermon, you're also being crafted by the Holy Spirit, like he's working that truth into you. And if you skip that step just to give a maybe a better sermon than you would have preached on your own as far as the transferring of information, you've robbed yourself of sanctification and you've robbed your people of the example that they're supposed to be able to follow.
Speaker 3:Man, that's so good. That's so good, yeah, cause all of us, everybody at this table, has experienced you're going to teach something and the practice and preparation of that is so personal right, it really shapes you. You're the first hearer of that for me and I know, I know you do this, rob, and I'm not sure if you do this act where I um practice preach my sermons like my, my, because I start with a manuscript, I pare it down to and I'll do some sentence diagrams in english.
Speaker 5:I love sentence diagramming I do it in english just trying to figure out prepositions, objects, prepositions, um.
Speaker 3:So I do that work, um, that's what gets my mind in the flow and the current of that text right. You would miss that if you just plugged in. But then I go for a walk and I say the sermon and I time it and you know that first that, first time it might be an hour, you know. And then I come back and I condense that manuscript down to from, you know, to seven pages, to five, to three, to when I'm at camp I want to get it down to one page and then I want to condense that to a note card size bullet point list. I don't do that church when I'm speaking to adults, but with students, because my, my personal style of communicating with students is to remove the podium and just walk the floor and interact with them and I. That's. That's unique to me. That's not a right or wrong way to do, it's just what works for me with students. That requires a lot more practice and rehearsal for me. You can't do that with.
Speaker 2:You'd lose that with but, there are guys and gals that are going to start using this well, even like personal stories, like looking back on sermons that may have like really clicked with me or I've still looked back on and remember to this day. It's because a beautiful picture of like a personal story that then is like related into, like it just helps you understand the gospel and with ai, what is it it can do that you know yeah.
Speaker 2:I think in one of your breakouts I think it might be the one on technology, or maybe you just say it a lot you just say like Christians should be smarter than everyone else, and I know that's like kind of like a first drawing to hear like, oh really, but it honestly like why, why shouldn't we be? But why aren't we, you know, doing research and digging deep and growing our mind, and you know that's such a good point right, especially if we say that we believe christianity first and foremost because it's true.
Speaker 5:If it's true, then christians are the ones who believe that. That's what that was in the student breakout. Christians are the ones who believe the truth about the universe. So, yeah, we should be the ones who believe that that's what that was in the student breakout. Christians are the ones who believe the truth about the universe. So, yeah, we should be the ones who know it the best.
Speaker 5:And then one of the things that we've I've been talking about with ai what a way of condensing what both y'all just said is, I think ai can be really helpful if the main goal of what you're trying to do is to get a product, but if you're concerned about the process, then it actually hinders, you know. But I mean that's where, because we do want that process For people who are preaching and teaching God's word, we want it to be working on us and becoming a part of us, Like I love what you said, getting our brains in the flow. Like, yeah, what is God communicating through this author? How is he? Why does it make sense? Okay, you can understand that and then, from that, you can preach that passage because you've become, it's become a part of you, Whereas but I mean, people have been doing this forever. This is just another way of people taking shortcuts. You know how many times you like, even the past 10 years, there's been so many pastors that have oh, so many.
Speaker 5:yeah, they've been like, oh, plagiarism, plagiarism, and it's like and so that's, it's just it's, that's the, that's the easy shortcut temptation to anything yeah, yeah that current uh analogy for me, I always think of uh.
Speaker 3:Y'all remember when we used to go swim the nana hala falls, their staff training. It's so fun and what was so good about it is you had staff members that were scared of learning how to run the falls in their boat. They're already freaked out about becoming a river guide and it's an overwhelming task. That river's not that hard, but moving that boat with a bunch of people in it that may not be cooperating. So we wanted to teach them two things. We wanted to teach them if you're in this water, you're going to feel some panic, but then for you as a guide, you should be comfortable in this water because you're the person that might have to pull somebody out.
Speaker 3:So we would go down to the Nantahala Falls and we would enter the river right above the falls. We'd go in and we would swim it and you're basically just power're just power stroking. But I mean it takes you, boom, and it buries you and you pop up, and then it buries you and you pop up and you're just. But we tell them the whole time just swim, just swim. And to me preaching's like that You're in this current. That's ancient and time it's been flowing since the foundation of the earth, since before it, and I'm diving in and I'm swimming in this current, but I'm also pulling people, you know, to safety, or to the security of what um, the the scripture is is is giving them you and you don't get that with ai. No, there's no way yeah, yeah in relationship to romans 8 is.
Speaker 4:you know, one of the most enjoyable things leading up to our summer sermons was revisiting the flow that is throughout the book, the current or the argument that God has inspired Paul to lace into that letter, and so revisiting that together in conversations what we did during staff training.
Speaker 4:then you're back in that flow, and so the context just is building and building and building, so that when you get to just that peak of Romans 8.1, if all the other context is in place, you're set up not to mishandle it and not to go off in a weird tangent. It keeps you hemmed in to the truth of that passage, which is so enjoyable. If the question of what do I wish I could have gone deeper on would have just be oh, I mean, we got so much of the Book of Romans. Your introductory sermon was a great, bringing everyone up to speed enough to appreciate that first one. But yeah, I would wish. Oh, if we could do the whole Book of Romans in the summer.
Speaker 4:There's so much depth and all those passages you could have broken them down smaller. Give them more time. Our goal is always okay. What's the main point of this section that I have, and that's what I want to highlight, but there's always so much more. I had the uh privilege initially. Uh, it was slated um for Brody to preach 28 through 30. Uh, and he was, he wanted to do back to back on Friday. So that left that passage and he was like well, you, you were Spencer and I was like I got it.
Speaker 1:I'll just go ahead. I'll just go ahead, is that?
Speaker 4:okay, and it's such a deep passage and so, okay, what's the unifying point and principle here? And I was emphasizing okay, this is God's eternal love and that's what ultimately gives us our security. Is seeing my security from that perspective of God from outside of time, saying, oh, I've always loved you, you know. But there is so much more that you could go into and supporting passages and on for knowledge and predestination and being conformed to the image of Christ. But right. Yeah.
Speaker 3:I struggled a little bit with those two Fridayiday sermons. I came into the summer thinking I'm gonna, I'm gonna write these, I'm gonna read a big chunk. It's gonna be epic, because the, because the text is epic and I felt like, oh, if I had to do over again, I would approach friday a little different. Um, the content that we have that you posted. The two Friday sessions that came about mid summer. I had really continued to tweak and change and and finally got it where I felt like I was able to convey what I needed to convey. That's one of the things that's hard when when you so like when we teach narratives. Swo 24 was a life of Christ, so it's all narratives. Swo24 was Life of Christ, so it's all narratives. Swo26 is going to be narrative.
Speaker 2:A little teaser right there. A little teaser.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's coming out. You guys will know, here in the next week or so. We've got the SWO26 teaching focus nailed down and we're starting to build some branding and content for promoting it. But there's going to be a good bit of narrative. Narrative is easier to just build a sermon and stick with it.
Speaker 3:When you're getting into doctrinally deep water and you're trying to convey it to the average 13-year old, it can be very difficult, and so I. For me, the only regret from the summer is I feel like I didn't put enough time into getting it where the average 13 year old could understand a couple of those sessions early on. Now, uh, some of those sessions I, I, I stuck with all summer and never changed anything. But then, yeah, what Rob said, I really enjoyed Monday night. It forced me. How do you come up with a chapter-by-chapter summary of the book of Romans for seven chapters and then land on chapter 8, verse 1, and do that all in a 25-minute sermon? That took for me a ton of work personally, but in the finished product I was really, each week I was in personally encouraged back to. I was in the current. Each week it was renewing my sort of soul and mind to to teach that. I love doing that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 3:Uh, I will say that. Uh, well, for sure. Uh, I will say that. Uh, well, first off, um, zach's breakouts to the, to leaders. Every year we get a lot of feedback from that, but every single day I was getting a ton of interaction, people saying, you know, saying thank you for y'all doing this, and then, um, we want more of this. You know, like, like, you just have so much time in the day, yeah, you just can't.
Speaker 3:It'd be awesome if we could do two leaders breakouts a day. You know, if we could do two student breakouts, or if we could have a series of non-required breakouts for students or whatever. But so I think the other sort of not regret, but what I wish is that we had more opportunity to teach and more chance to give them content. But, jb, your session was phenomenal. The Lord has clearly gifted you and we've prayed, you know I've prayed about God just bringing us women that could communicate and and, uh, you know, brooke Davis, brooke loving good Good now is Brooke Davis, who was the first young staff member that we had. Do the girl talk Right, and she was just phenomenal.
Speaker 2:Which is crazy, because she was my counselor.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's pretty wild.
Speaker 2:Yeah, full circle moment.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and I had. You know, when I went to her and said I feel like the Lord's giving you a gift, and we worked through that, and she just it was so incredible. And then, and then kilby did it, yeah, um, and then I've, we've, and then we've had a few other girls, uh, macy and anna rose has done it.
Speaker 3:Emma burnett yeah well, anna rose yeah, but as far as staff girls uh emma and macy did a great job, but then we've had older gals older being adults non non summer staff. Little has done it a lot. Anna rose does a phenomenal job. We had moose do it one year. But finding a person within the team, that's like this person is connected to the students on a day to day basis. It's been a like a strategic prayer. So, first off, I'm just grateful that you said yes, um, yeah, because I know it was a. You had to pray about it. And then, second, it was literally okay. We found our girl, like, like it was. It was incredible. So, but I'm curious what your feedback was. I'm assuming overwhelmingly positive.
Speaker 2:Yes it was always super encouraging.
Speaker 2:I would try my best to kind of like go out and linger, not to like get compliments, but you know, just to talk available yes, yeah, that's huge yeah, um, but it definitely took a toll on me, like I would be exhausted after and I would have to fight being like I just want to get my car. I'm drenched in sweat, I'm like I just want to shower and you know. So I would really have to like push to be like no, like see the bigger picture go out, come hang out, and that was always super encouraging and rewarding just girls. Being like man, I loved what you said, like I agreed completely with everything that you said.
Speaker 2:Um, it also was that's something that I've prayed through and like thank the Lord, a lot is my I hope this doesn't come across as arrogant, but like my way to connect with girls and like like, even when I was in college and working with my college ministry and like youth ministry at college, I would constantly just be thanking the Lord, like it did just come very naturally to me. And something that I just enjoy is, like you know, talking with high schoolers and middle school girls and like just you know, being honest and being like, hey, this is a struggle that is very common, and like let's address it, and so that is something that I've been very like thankful that the Lord has given me and I'm very thankful that you guys, I guess, maybe saw that in me and like, because I never, ever, ever would have saw myself doing the girls breakout.
Speaker 2:Like still to this day I'm like what just happened? Like what in the world, and so even that is such a cool, just full circle moment. Like I said, brooke was my counselor when she did the girls talk and I remember like being like she's so cool, like that was so awesome. And then, you know, like I was a camper, came for years to Snowbird and never in a million years would I have thought that I would be on stage, you know speaking and stuff.
Speaker 3:So I've dreamed of I've never even really shared this, um, but I I want to get I mean, we've talked about it internally but I want to get to a point where all of wednesday is separated. Right now we start with a joint worship service with guys and girls, and then we separate them for that morning breakout, then we separate them for the evening. Um, I want to get to a point where the whole day they're completely separated to worship services in the morning, to breakouts, to worship services in the evening. So I feel like we took a step closer to that this year for sure.
Speaker 3:Um and uh and I we appreciated that you handled the scripture faithfully. You know, cause, that's obviously that's a big deal here, and um, and it, it, it earns and gains the confidence of leaders and parents. Um, yeah, so that was for me as a, as someone who wants to develop leaders, especially as I'm getting older and really wanting to build that next generation of leadership Um, that's maybe the most gratifying thing for me. This is a big statement. The most gratifying ministry piece to the summer was your.
Speaker 3:Wednesday morning because it's like man, this is, this is what we've, this is what we strive for, Because, I mean, I remember you as a middle school camper.
Speaker 2:Oh, please Like.
Speaker 3:I got video of you dancing on stage or Little does Little has. Have y'all seen the video of JB in the coop, pre-service? People are just mingling Seventh grade JB, oh gosh. And what are those boots? Called Combat boots, okay, so like pants tucked in them? It's a winter swole. It's when Jodi Livingston was her student pastor. Everybody's just talking the coop, it's. It's. Everybody's just doing their thing waiting for the service to start at winter swole. And we're playing music and JB little JB jumps on stage and does a full on dance routine like Moses Holloway.
Speaker 2:Honestly yes, Like Moses it is it is.
Speaker 3:That's crazy, it's so crazy, it's hilarious.
Speaker 2:My mom actually was a chaperone that trip and little was standing off to the side and was like what is this girl Like, oh my gosh, laughing? And she looks at my mom and goes she's going to work here one day.
Speaker 4:That is so good, so that should probably be made available in the notes into this podcast right. Should be.
Speaker 3:We'll post that. I would think so. We'll set that up Little's got it on her phone, oh my
Speaker 1:gosh.
Speaker 3:It is very entertaining.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, crazy.
Speaker 3:You know, we talked. You talked in an episode it. You talked in an episode, uh, it was the eric rudolph episode.
Speaker 2:Rudolph uh, chainsaw man, and it was one other thing, rudolph the, something in the chainsaw yeah, anyway, that was a good episode I've got have you got a lot of feedback.
Speaker 3:I've gotten so much feedback from that episode. It's probably five months ago now, three, four anyway but um, at the end of that episode. The point of that episode was this guy who said he was on mission from god and he's blowing stuff up and killing innocent people. He got off track and so sincere pursuit of life in christ, like you're gonna be genuine, you're gonna Like you're going to be genuine, you're going to be transparent, you're going to and in that part of what people have talked a lot about, was you talking about your sister or a family member?
Speaker 4:yeah, here's your sister.
Speaker 2:Yes, okay, if I can say that. Yeah, edit that out.
Speaker 3:If you know I, it's fine yeah, but it and again we can edit this. Yeah, no we.
Speaker 2:I was actually thinking we should talk about.
Speaker 2:She came this summer to hear you yes, so I've worked at snowbird for like four ish years on and off, and I always my sister for a while lived in a homosexual relationship and has completely walked away at one time from my family and has just completely abandoned her faith. We are grown up in the same household. Like all my other siblings are walking with the Lord. My parents are super, super faithful, great parents, great household, and when she went to college she just completely abandoned all of that and since then at times has been very hostile towards our beliefs, our faiths.
Speaker 2:Maybe like more conservative I'm, not even going to say conservative, just like beliefs from scripture, like what scripture talks about, not even going to say conservative, just like beliefs from scripture, like what scripture talks about. And so for all four years that I've worked here, I've always been like man, you guys should come up and get a cabin and come to a few services or like, hey, the women's conference, like I'll get you guys tickets and we can all come up and hang out with mom and stuff. And she's come up like I think, twice and the whole time like very, like sitting like this bouncing her legs, like just very shut down, and almost just came because, like my, the rest of my family came, which is still such a blessing. But this summer I did the Wednesday girls breakout what we just talked about and I knew my mom was planning to come up and visit and she was going to bring my aunt, who my aunt and her husband used to bring students here. So I was really excited for them to come up and see like the growth of camp and everything. And then my sister walks in and you can't miss her. She has like bright pink hair and so I see her and I'm literally like what? Like I did not know she was coming and obviously I was like wishing she would come, wishing my family could come, and I mean I was like so blown away. Also, anna Grace is her name. Anna Grace has come to camp. She came probably like 2012 to like 2013.
Speaker 2:So, like it was so, so encouraging that she got to come to camp and see, like man, they're still solid, you know, they're still preaching the same things and like it's still the same solid pastors and teachers here and like yeah, so much has changed and grown and things are different, but like the, the solid this and like everything like that really truly matters is still the same. Like the core is still the same. And um, yeah, she got to see like all my element girls, which was so fun, and they just greeted her with like love and, you know, didn't like they were obsessed with her. They're like that's your sister, she's so pretty, oh my gosh, like her hair and so. And then, like even we walked around camp, I took her through the snack shack and the metal building and everything like that, and there's like a few times throughout the week that people will recognize me or come up and say, hey, thank you so much for your talk, whatever, and it's always super encouraging.
Speaker 2:But this day, like I mean, it was like every second, like people were coming up and being like are you, jb, from the podcast? Like I recognize your voice, like a man literally was like I recognize your voice from the podcast, like so many people were coming up and that was, I think, just honestly I think you say sometimes like an attaboy from the, from the Lord, and I think it was just so cool for her to see like man, my sister is like working full time in a ministry and like is like having an impact on people and like you know, like it's not just oh, oh, she's a summer camp counselor, like bye, um, but I think it was just so cool and like, even after she was like I didn't know you were a celebrity, I was like no, I'm not, but it was just so cool for her to I think see that and see just like Snowbird is preaching the gospel and it's having an impact and it's like it's real, it's true, it's good. And even like I appreciate you. Brody saw her and was like hey, like can I give you a hug? Like how are you?
Speaker 2:And even stuff like that, because it's like I know she knows the truth and I know like even just like she's been here and she sees all this stuff and I don't know. It was really cool. It was like that. That was, I think, week five, so right in the middle of summer, so that was a really good like almost right in the middle of summer, so that was a really good like almost kick in the pants of encouragement. I'm just like man, like it just gave me so much hope. That's something I struggle with sometimes of like man, she's too far gone or like she's so stuck in her ways or she's so stubborn. But that was just super encouraging that she came by her choice, like she wanted to come.
Speaker 3:So, yeah, super, super lord, thank you jesus and, uh, I think she even got a shirt yes, she got the camo snowbird shirt and wears it, and wears it. Yep, so yeah, yeah, awesome yeah, we need to continue to be praying for her. Yes, she's such a, she's such an, she's got such an awesome personality.
Speaker 2:I always think, uh, I I can't help but think in a when I meet a person like her man, if she got on fire for god and just fell in love with jesus and, yeah, started to really try to impact people that's what me and my family say all the time, because she's also such a great writer, great communicator. She's a high school teacher right now and she's like even to her high school students it's in a more like lower income area. She's great like she provides some like hygienic stuff in the classroom, snacks like she's great and connects to the kids so well and I think that all the time like just praying that she will, you know, fall back in love with jesus and it would be awesome fall back in love with Jesus and it would be awesome.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, yeah, man, that was a big day. I can I remember several times that day seeing y'all around camp and, just like man Lord, I don't know what she's thinking right now, but please just soften her heart and provide opportunities for conversation. Well, I think that's a good place to kind of wrap it up. I appreciate what's been said about Romans 8. You know, when we went through it at Red Oak the first time before it was Red Oak, it was Snowbird.
Speaker 1:House.
Speaker 3:Church. We spent a year, 52 weeks in Romans 8. And that was with adults and with students. We had to try to tackle it in eight or nine sessions. So I feel like we did a good job. We did a faithful job. I think the feedback I got was very solid, very positive. We did a faithful job. I think the feedback I got was very solid, very positive. And it's crazy how often somebody will say I think this summer is my favorite teaching, but the same people will say the same thing the next summer.
Speaker 3:Yeah every year, which is a really cool picture of the progression and sanctification in a person's life and in a ministry and that it seems like the Lord always just gives folks what they need. So many stories of, uh I thought maybe cool to close with just sharing a few stories that stand out that were very powerful. And uh, one for me was I know that Andrew Roberts is a student pastor at Bel Air Baptist and uh, down in Gulfport or Gulf Shore somewhere on the Gulf Coast in the South Mississippi when is it Gulfport?
Speaker 4:Gulf of America.
Speaker 3:Gulf of America and there's a man in his church named David Brooks who went to be with the Lord back in April. David was at Be Strong in March and David was kind of a larger than life personality. He was a physically large guy, he had a big personality and he was. He had come as a chaperone with our church for years and would then also attend Be Strong conferences and a lot of us got to know him and he had a very aggressive cancer and when he was here at Be Strong in March you'd have never known he was in the final stages of a terminal illness Went home and died pretty quick after that.
Speaker 3:His wife Lori, and their two daughters who I'm not going to name, they were here, name um, they were here and, uh, and it was just a very emotional thing for me to interact with that family and, pretty cool, we told them hey, for life you come to anything you want to at SWO. So they're coming to winter SWO too. The mom and the two daughters are coming to respond. Um, but it was a, it was. It was a pretty powerful thing for me as a dad, but also recognizing what this week did for those girls. This was a place that their dad loved and that they had shared experiences with him. It was a, it was a a really.
Speaker 3:I I had a hard time the week they were here, just personally, just the emotion of it. But, man, brave little girls and they're not little girls, they're teenagers. But that was a really impactful experience for me this summer and so I'm grateful for that and so I'm grateful for that and just you guys can pray for the Brooks family as they continue to navigate a crazy few years ahead of them just coming into adulthood. Anyway, that stands out to me, but I don't know if any of y'all had stories specific maybe conversion stories. So many kids came to faith.
Speaker 4:Anything that stands out. That's what my favorite thing from the summer is hearing yeah, that students are coming to christ and so and I got uh eric, really good friend. Um, he's no longer the student pastor, he's like an associate pastor, but he texted me the week that we were on vacation and said they had baptized uh 10 students, you know, and I think he said seven of them had, you know, made a profession of faith from their week at camp you know, not just so it's, it's humbling, you know, to play any part in that, you know, and I think, um, yeah, and there are so many stories, so many text messages were sent every week of camp and um, so, yeah, that to me that's always the best.
Speaker 4:I love every aspect of what we do and why we do it, but to know that God has, in his grace, chosen to use us to see students cross over from death to life, that doesn't get better. It doesn't get better than that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and we don't do like I said I mentioned earlier. We don't do a formal invitation or altar call. The reason for that is there's opportunity for students to respond in a more measurable way where we can really make the handoff to the student pastor and follow up with discipleship, and so, rather than do a large altar call, we really push those decisions into share groups and one-on-one conversations. But then we ask our staff hey, when this happens, let us know, and our staff fills out some summaries for youth pastors to know what a student has expressed or professed. But those texts we would be sitting around and just there were a lot of nights where texts would just ping, ping, ping, ping. They'd start coming in. Kids were making professions of faith and share groups and one-on-one conversations, and Lord only knows how many you know. Yeah, pretty awesome though.
Speaker 5:Sure, another thing for me that was so encouraging was, you know, I would, every Saturday morning I'd come in and just help people check out, and just the conversations that I would have with student pastors. It was just so enjoyable and real humbling, you know, talking about the way that coming to camp has affected their church and their personal relationship with the Lord and their ability to like love on their students and teach the Bible, and just it was such a good like wake-up call Like man. We're not just getting to invest in students, which is awesome, but we're getting like wake up call me like man. We're not just it's, we're not just getting to invest in students, which is awesome, but we're getting like I mean, I had student pastors bawling talking about what an influence Snowbird has had on them and their personal relationship with the Lord and their ministry and their marriages, and it was just really it is super cool, really humbling.
Speaker 3:We learned this summer when MacArthur went to be with the Lord. We learned and we're not a ministry, that's, none of us have ever been to master's college or seminary, university or seminary, so we're not affiliated with them. But I think most of us just appreciate his faithfulness. When someone finishes well and gets carried off on their shield, it's kind of like thank the Lord, a saint has gone to be with the Lord.
Speaker 3:He finished his race and he did it well, he gripped the sword in one hand and gripped the plow right to the end. You know, and I was thinking about um while you're saying that, zach, I was thinking about um, that conference that I mentioned earlier, where I got to hear sproll and macarthur, who've both been to be with the lord. I don't remember, I don't remember learning anything at that conference. I couldn't tell you something I learned, or specificity of a sermon. Uh, the only the only thing that I remember, uh, cj mahaney. I remember a point he made.
Speaker 3:He spoke at that, that and it didn't have to do with penal substitutionary atonement, it was in his introduction. It had to do with Paul. You hear Paul's love and care for the people in the way he opens and closes letters and how, as pastors and leaders, we should genuinely care for people. That really impacted me. But I remember it was not long after that that I felt this was 2008. I felt strongly and we started to have these discussions.
Speaker 3:Snowbird needs to be a place where students and student pastors and leaders come and are it's, it's they experience that type of like a conference. It's not first a camp experience, but it's a bible conference where they're edified and exhorted from the scriptures and um, and I feel like you know that's become a, that that's been for 20 years, almost a mark of this ministry and for people to be able, the way we appreciated macarthur's faithfulness or piper's faithfulness. I disagree with certain things, with both those guys, sure, which is crazy, because I know they're way smarter than me, they're definitely more educated, they're way smarter, agreed, but I'm like, but I disagree with that. I disagree with it.
Speaker 5:Sure, not key doctrinal stuff, nothing to fight over, yeah, but I'm not a pacifist, that's right.
Speaker 3:And some nothing, not not key doctrinal stuff, nothing to fight over. Yeah, yeah, like you know, but I'm not a pacifist, that's right when piper said, yeah, you shouldn't have a gun, I wouldn't have a gun. I wouldn't have a gun in my house if somebody broke in and was gonna attack my wife and daughter. I wouldn't like what in the world like? We are not the same, no, you know. But then I think what that man has done to edify and encourage me. Oh yeah, I'm so thankful that's right macarthur, I don't know.
Speaker 3:You know, there's some things with his eschatology or with dispensationalism and covenant theology, I don't know. There's things that I'm not sure I would agree with him on, I don't even know for sure. But man, he was faithful to the end. Yep, he finished his race. And I think the way that we appreciate guys like that we've been around long enough now people are starting to appreciate. I don't know how many times I've heard people say y'all been faithful, thank you for a quarter century of faithfulness. And which is another highlight this summer is we now have a group of former staff members from all over the country who put their kids together and create their own group and send them to camp.
Speaker 3:And then they'll say, like Daniel and Heather Ritchie, both posted on social media our kids are sitting under the teaching of this ministry, Romans 8, which is what we sat under in 2005. It impacted us and now it's impacting a second generation. That's pretty gratifying.
Speaker 5:Yeah, for sure, that's awesome yeah.
Speaker 3:So as long as we're here, we're here, and when we're gone, somebody else will be in our places doing this.
Speaker 4:That's right.
Speaker 3:This ministry is going to do what this ministry is currently doing until Jesus comes back. So we're not going to change, that's for sure. Awesome Good summer, all right, so we'll uh, jb, let's discuss SWO 26 in the next week's episode in the next episode. Okay, sounds good. Roll it out. By then We'll have some social media stuff ready. Yes, I'm excited about it.
Speaker 2:Oh wait, one thing that we need to mention. I think you guys know there's a part two coming out to the NSR book called NSR Stories, where we hear from a lot of your stories, kind of what we were just talking about. So there's going to be a link in this episode in the notes where you can submit if you feel inclined. I meant to tell you that, sorry.
Speaker 5:Good to know.
Speaker 3:Thank you Sorry, it's awesome. Yeah, good to know. Thank you, sorry. It's awesome. Yeah, no sanity's book is going to be all no sanity stories. Um, we recently had uh hannah welch on here yes, maddie's mom and that's going to be one of the stories. Uh, we've got uh, a portion of garb osman's story. Uh, it's linked um in the book there's a qr code or uh, I don't even know what I'm saying right now code.
Speaker 5:Code Link code.
Speaker 3:Did I get that right? Austin, yeah, where people can go read a portion of Gar's story. So, yeah, no Sanity Stories Excited about that. Yeah, that's a great idea. Yeah, sorry.
Speaker 2:Meant to tell you that earlier. Yeah, how this ministry has impacted you. Yes, that'd be good, yeah.
Speaker 3:I'm excited about that book Already got a bunch of content laid out and written and we just got to start refining it. And if you don't have a copy of the no Sanity Required book, get your copy. It's crazy how many of those things have flown off the shelf and the feedback we've gotten. It's been awesome. So thanks to folks that have listened and then I'm going to, or have read that, and then I'm going to. In the next next couple weeks I'm going to sit down and read listener emails, listener comments. Tons of comments in the nsr comment um section. So just, we love, we read those and we don't always read them back on here, but we read those and they're very encouraging to us. We're going to read a bunch of those um. We're going to devote an entire episode to that, so that'll be coming soon. So send, leave us a comment, send us an email. We appreciate it. All right, thank y'all.
Speaker 1:Thanks for listening to no sanity required. Please take a moment to subscribe and leave a rating. It really helps. Visit us at SW outfitterscom to see all of our programming and resources and we'll see you next week on no Sanity Required.
