No Sanity Required
No Sanity Required is a weekly podcast hosted by Brody Holloway and Snowbird Outfitters. Each week, we engage culture and personal stories with a Gospel-driven perspective. Our mission is to equip the Church to pierce the darkness with the light of Christ by sharing the vision, ideas, and passions God has used to carry us through 26 years of student ministry. Find more content at swoutfitters.com.
No Sanity Required
The Courage to Encourage | Interview with Brooke Lovingood
What does it really mean to encourage someone in a world that often tears people down? In this episode, Brooke Lovingood and Brody Holloway dive into the heart of biblical encouragement—showing that it’s more than just being nice or offering flattery. True encouragement means recognizing what God is doing in someone’s life and helping them keep going.
They explore why encouragement doesn’t always come naturally, how insecurities and fear hold us back, and how simple, intentional words can breathe life into others. From leadership and ministry to marriage and parenting, Brody and Brooke share practical ways to identify gifts in others and help them grow.
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I am on my way to Athens, georgia, actually going to Watkinsville which is a little bit outside of Athens it's all kind of the same area, but heading down to. We're going to have a conversation in this episode with Brooke Lovingood. Brooke's been on here before. She's been on NSR before. She's not a stranger and when she was on NSR we had incredible feedback. She's also very involved at Snowbird. She's spoken extensively multiple times at our Respond Women's Conference and she's just a really good friend to this ministry and to Little and I and we've known her since she was in seventh grade, watched her grow up. She's one of those really cool, no sanity stories God using the ministry of Snowbird to impact someone who then has gone far beyond what we could ever ask or imagine or hope for. The Lord's using her in awesome ways. She's served at Snowbird and she's now in full-time ministry, has been for several years but still very involved at SWO. So anyway, I'm excited.
Speaker 1:I'm in the truck driving, thought I'd go ahead and record the intro on the drive.
Speaker 1:So it's about a three-hour drive from Snowbird down from Andrews to Athens and I've had a lot of time to think and pray and reflect. I listened to some sermons, listened to some, some really cool scriptures, some passages of scripture I'm going to be teaching tonight, but in the meantime, before, before that, I want to sit down with Brooke. When I get there, if I understand, she's waiting on me with the fresh hot cup of coffee and we're going to plug up the podcaster and we're going to dive in. We're going to be talking in this episode about encouragement. Brooke is an encourager and I want to be an encourager and I want Snowbird to be a ministry where people are encouraged, and that certainly has been a goal and, I think, something that has become a reality, and so, anyway, it'll be a fun conversation. I've been looking forward to this. We've been planning it for over a month now. So with that, I want to welcome you to no Sanity Required and my conversation with Brooke Lovingood.
Speaker 2:Welcome to no Sanity Required from the Ministry of Snowbird Wilderness Outfitters a podcast about the Bible culture and stories from around the globe.
Speaker 1:Okay, right before the intro I said that Watkinsville is basically Athens, but I just left Athens and drove through a little stretch of the country I think part of that like forestry or agriculture department or something for UGA and it is beautiful. I've been through here before and I forgot about that little stretch of road. Man, it's beautiful. Now I'm just ready for deer season, it's almost archery season and I'm driving through here and I'm telling you, man, this is beautiful. But anyway, I'm coming into Watkinsville now, which is actually just outside of Athens. I was thinking that it was kind of the same town, but it is not. So anyway, really pretty area and I'm pulling into First Baptist Church of Watkinsville, Georgia, Going to get unloaded here and dive into this conversation with Brooke on encouragement. I'm excited about that, so we're good to just start.
Speaker 3:We can just start rolling. Okay, you okay for me to just kick it off.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So what we're going to do here, I think, is our listeners will probably remember about a year ago, John Rouleau came on here and interviewed me and people loved it, so I love this idea. This is Brooke's idea, um, and I'm excited about it. So yeah, let's just roll.
Speaker 3:Okay. So when I was thinking about this and we had talked about me coming on podcast a few times and just a topic that kept coming to mind, which I did a talk on this a few weeks ago and I thought the moment I did it, I was like this is, brody, and maybe it's something about you that maybe listeners who haven't been up close in your life or people have just come to Snowbird, heard you teach but not necessarily really know you wouldn't assume about you and I joke with you that you have this like whole other side to you. That wouldn't be what people would think right off the bat. This is something about you that I have admired from the time I worked at Snowbird as a college kid and it's something that I think has been a high value in my life, just in my own world.
Speaker 3:My dad was really, really good at this and that's being an encourager and someone that seeks to like call out in other people what you see God doing in them, through them, and it's really a primary way you lead. And so I would love to just have a conversation around this, because I think being an encourager, receiving encouragement, being someone that lives their life looking around other people, seeking ways to build them up, to edify, to speak life into them, is something that's very like underrated in the church, and it's just something we don't really talk about, because I think there can be some confusion around what genuine, godly, biblical encouragement is. Like. What do we mean by that? So I would love to just hear your thoughts on that question. Like what, when you're an encourager? What does that mean, though? What? What do you think and why is it important to understand what encouragement means when it when it's in the context of the Christian life?
Speaker 1:Um, I do think a lot of people. You said something. I have always tried to be super accessible and I think there's this uh, I think there's a sort of a stigma that goes with people that are ministry leaders and it's probably earned where they're not really approachable or relationally attainable, and I've tried to make sure that's not who I am and how I do things. So on a normal day, like a normal day in the summer, I'll spend as much time in conversation with a 17-year-old element student or a 13-year-old group of middle school boys at Snack Shack as I will maybe with a pastor or someone like you that has a longstanding relationship, just being accessible. So I think part of being an encourager if you're in leadership is being accessible.
Speaker 1:um that's so good and I do tell people be patient. Like if you say, hey, can we talk, okay, why don't you tell me what we need to talk about? And then just be patient with me getting making it happen, we'll make it happen. It's urgent. If there's no urgency to it, then I won't, then maybe it's next Thursday. But if it's like, oh no, no, no, we got to talk and I'll drop what I'm doing, so I think being accessible, I think, um, another thing about being an encourager is just being positive.
Speaker 1:You know this is a core value at Snowbird to be positive. And I cannot stand a whining, murmuring attitude. I can't stand for people to feel sorry for themselves. I can't stand to be around people that are negative. So I think a lot of being an encourager is not like saying cringy catch phrases Like I'm like, like, like I'm your cheerleader, like I'm spurring you on. You know, it's just being a positive friend, like a positive interaction, like if you're interacting with me, I want it to be positive and uplifting and it's not something that needs to be forced, it's something that should be from the overflow of this person has been with the Lord. If this person spends time with the Lord, they're going to be positive. You know it's going to be joyful going to be positive. So I think being positive is a big part of being an encourager. And then for me, you know to to answer the part of the question about seeing in other people, I think one mark of a good leader is identifying what giftings people have that God's entrusted you with leading identifying those giftings and then and then cultivating fruit in that person's life, helping them learn to cultivate that gifting. So giving them opportunities to fail, giving them opportunities to learn, giving them opportunities to succeed. I think about somebody like one of the young guys that we've got slated to teach this fall at different snowbird events. We've got a few guys and gals that we're using and kind of our next generation of teachers and letting them do it and being okay with them making some mistakes and knowing that maybe someone could have done it quote unquote better, but none that's using teaching as an example. But whatever the uh, whatever a person's giftings are, seeing those giftings and part of being an encourager is helping them put those giftings into practice.
Speaker 1:You know whether that's somebody that you know? We got a guy named Mike that works at SWO. That is probably the most behind the scenes guy. He's not a dynamic personality. You're not going to see him much on stage occasionally or like out in front of people, but in a small group. He's six, five so, and he's athletic, so kids are drawn to him. But behind the scenes that dude works. I'd call him at five in the morning, 11 o'clock at night. Him and his wife would drop what they're doing or get out of bed or whatever and just jump in and go. I don't encourage that dude. How do you encourage a guy like that? Well, he's wired that way. You encourage him by using him and then appreciating him for it and like he needs to buy, he needs to buy in, he needs to, he needs to put his hand on one of the paddles that we're rowing this thing forward, you know, and so figuring out where people can utilize the gifts God's given them. In the context of now I'm answering this all in the context of snowbird.
Speaker 3:Right.
Speaker 1:So, in the context of snowbird, trying to figure out how's this person gifted, where's this person going to be most fruitful and where are they going to have life-giving experiences? Like for Mike, I want to figure out what is life-giving for him. For one person working in hospitality and guest services and cleaning and wiping stuff down, that's life-giving, because they have a servant's heart. And stuff down, that's life giving because they enjoy, they have a servant heart, servant's heart. And then one person that is called to preach or teach or lead in that capacity. I want to give them those opportunities because they they draw from that. You know this. Like how life giving that is because God's gifted you and wired you that way. So you've got to figure out people's giftings and then, um, figure out ways to let them experience the joy of the Lord. You remember that there's that guy that his name was Eric little or Lytle Lydell the. There was a book and a movie years ago called chariots of fire. This guy was a, uh, distance runner for the British Olympic team and he made headlines because he wouldn't run on. This was the 1930s. He wouldn't run on Sundays because he was a believer and he had a conviction against that. But there was a quote where somebody asked him why do you keep running? He said because when I run I feel the pleasure of God. Well, he's recognizing the gifting God's given him.
Speaker 1:Tuck told me I heard Tuck. He didn't tell me. I heard Tuck in a podcast. He was being interviewed by a guy from Duke and the guy said what's the biggest game you're most excited about going into this season? And Tuck said Mercedes-Benz Stadium opening the Aflac kickoff. We're playing South Carolina. And the guy said why is that? Is it because South Carolina's coach Beamer? Why is that? Is it because because South Carolina's coach Beamer is the son to the legendary Virginia tech coach.
Speaker 1:He said is it because it's Beamer? The coach said no, it's because five years ago I was there for a passion conference, worshiping the Lord, and I had this thought what if I got to worship the Lord by playing football, using the gifts he's given me in this same stadium? That would be crazy. And he said now it's scary to happen. It's like this full circle moment. And he talked about and we've talked about this a lot Colossians three, uh, 17 and 23 talk about whatever you do, do it hardly as under the Lord, you know. Or when Paul's writing the Corinthians and he says whatever you do, whether you eat or drink, whatever you do at all, the glory of God, people, people need to be encouraged to exercise and use the gifts that they've been given. If they're doing that, the encouragement comes from the Lord and from the fact that you're cheering them on and pulling for them and helping move them along. It's not this cringy. Let me slap everybody on the back and give them a big, toothy grin and say something corny. You know what I mean.
Speaker 3:It's not flattery. It's not flattery.
Speaker 1:It's not flattery.
Speaker 3:And what you're calling out in people, good or bad, it's like what they're going to step into more. You know, I mean, that's such a part of my story with you you calling out in me things that I was good at and I was like whoa, I didn't even know that and then, okay, I'm going to, I'm going to do that some more, then I'm going to step into that more and I think, specifically as a leader, but as a mom, a dad, a spouse, you have the opportunity to call things out that you're seeing and and literally it can shape and mold a person to be more who God has designed them to be, and you're really good at that. So I love that. The end of Tyler and Mai's vows on our wedding day the line we said right at the end was that I would play a part in you. So, like I'm saying this to Tyler, I would play a part in you hearing well done, good and faithful servant, and he said that to me and that has stuck with me so much.
Speaker 3:But even in the Christian life, like I just want to interact with people and play a part in helping them get to Jesus faithfully whether that's teaching from a sage Sure, but I just want that in my daily conversations, like and I think encouragement is such a key to that, not flattery, not surface level, not an ego boost. I'm talking like I see God working in this person. I'm calling that out. So many other things are pushing back against them. Maybe they feel insecurity, doubt, weirdness, shame, awkwardness around that. But I want to be the voice that steps in and says keep, keep going.
Speaker 3:That's what you're doing that really well. You know, I think of those vows a lot.
Speaker 1:And sometimes it is a verbal affirmation of saying to somebody hey man, like I texted uh, the other day I texted a guy something encouraging and he said his. His response was very brief, but it was something like you have no idea how much I need to read this right now.
Speaker 1:So I would encourage people that one simple way to be an encourager that doesn't come across as like disingenuous or insincere is to write a text, send a text to somebody, make a list of people that you want to encourage and just send them a brief text. Say I'm thankful for you, you've done this to me, I'm thankful for you, I'm appreciative. Basically, keep going, keep going. You never know what that there's a very prominent worship guy. I don't want to say his name, but people would know his name. But, um, people would know his name if I said it and we worked a few of it back when I did a lot of itinerant stuff or speaking at conferences, which I don't do a lot of that anymore. I'm really thankful. I like being in the mountains. You know, um, I don't like to go into big arenas and um but that's.
Speaker 3:Is it because you're old?
Speaker 1:um, maybe no, I don't think I wasn't crazy about it when I was doing it in my 30s, I wasn't crazy about it, you know yeah it's.
Speaker 1:it was a great opportunity. Some of those events were great opportunities. I'm grateful, um. But yeah, this guy, we I I spoke and he led worship at several big events and we, we developed friendship. He's a very sincere and genuine guy and I texted him one day. I just I was scrolling this will happen where you're looking in your phone for somebody else with the same first name or something. See, that guy was like I'm going to text that guy. I just text him. Hey man, lord, just put you on my heart. I just saw your name in my phone contact list. I'm praying for you right now. Say a prayer, just just intercede for that guy right there and send it to him. And he said I can't tell you right now, I'll tell you later. But the timing of this was impeccable and uh, and so that type of encouragement you know that's one way that people can be encouragers and um, and it's fun for the encourager because you feel like you're a part of what god's doing.
Speaker 3:You're sensitive to the spirit bringing a name to your brain, whether that be scrolling through your contact list. I've just learned to develop the habit of if that name is in my brain, I'm, I'm gonna reach out there's a reason.
Speaker 3:There's a reason you know I'm gonna, I'm doing something towards that person that could be encouraging and helpful. Okay, so why do you think this is hard for us? Like you, really don't meet a ton of encouragers. When someone is super encouraging, it kind of stands out. What are some obstacles to being a person that encourages regularly, and why? Why is this just generally can be hard for people?
Speaker 1:I think because, uh, people are. So most people are more focused on themselves, Um, and maybe not totally selfishly, but it's like I got to pay my bills or I'm, or I've got this ache or this pain or this illness or this stress or this relational problem or, um, you know, or people are focused on themselves, just like cause, we're selfish, we're selfish, and so I think about, uh, Paul writes to the Philippians and he says do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit, but in everything, consider others more important than yourself. And so the fact that the scripture would give us an exhortation to do that means it's not natural, but it is a work of the Holy Spirit. I've learned anytime the scripture is exhorting us to something, it's because that's not a natural thing for the flesh to do. So we're being exhorted to do something that is a spiritual act, not a natural fleshly act.
Speaker 1:So when Paul writes to the Philippians and says do nothing, don't be selfish in your ambitions and don't do anything out of vanity, prefer and consider others over yourself, and in doing that you're going to, you're going to be like Christ. And so the fact that scripture exhorts us to that is because it's so. So, to answer your question. I think the biggest hurdle is it's just not natural, it's not what your. Your flesh will never motivate you to encourage others, Even from the perspective of people's insecurities. I was on the drive down. I was talking to a youth pastor who he's in a healthy church with a good relationship with his pastor.
Speaker 1:But he was telling me we were talking about a situation he had been in a few years ago at another church, about a situation he had been in a few years ago at another church. And he's just run into this pastor because he's been ministering to a family that's still at that old church but their kids were in his youth ministry when he was at that old church. So he's now at a new church. It's three years later and he's ministering his family and and we were talking about I said what, what? Why did you leave that church? And he said the pastor fired me, literally fired me.
Speaker 1:I said okay, first off, that's dysfunctional church If a pastor can just fire you, which I'm not given all the details, but that's literally what happened. Pastor called him in and said you're done, clean out your desk. Okay, that church is not under healthy biblical leadership. But what it came down to is the pastor was a very insecure because this guy was a better teacher, he was a better shepherd, he was ministering to people better, he was an encourager. He and this pastor was insecure about it. One of the reasons people don't don't encourage is because in their own insecurities, they want attention for themselves. I think then, like, like the, the, the, to encourage someone else is a hum, is an act of humility.
Speaker 3:And it's like shining a spotlight on someone else. It's taking it off you and saying you're good at that, Yup yeah.
Speaker 1:You're good at that or I want you to succeed at this, even if it's something that maybe I'm not going to succeed at. Yeah, I going to succeed at. Um, yeah, I think people when you find an encourager, when you find somebody that does a good job of encouraging others, that person is usually pretty secure in their own identity. They have confidence in who they are in Christ. And people that are insecure you know, you worked in, you worked in student ministry with girls for a long time All girl drama spins around insecurity, identity issues. What's the same thing for 40 year old men or 30 year old women or you know whatever? Like, it's a human issue. It just tends to be magnified in the teenage years.
Speaker 1:But, um, when I start to take the spotlight off myself and just want others to succeed that's why it's snowbird from day one I was really adamant that I not be the guy doing all the speaking Cause. That's. That's one where you know if, like, that's the easy one to think about. Okay, we think about encouraging others, others, um, encouraging others to get on stage and speak and lead and get the affirmation of people. And because the reality is, you know, there's like in, in, in a conference where there's five teaching sessions. If I only do one of those I'm putting you know, or two of those, and three or four other sessions are being taught by other people. People might like their sessions better. You know what I mean. It's funny, but that's a thing and I'm cool with that.
Speaker 3:I'm all right with that Don't bother me.
Speaker 1:I just want the Lord to be honored and glorified, and when you can, let go of things like that and care for I, want God's glory to be first, and then I want others to succeed and do well for the glory of the Lord. But then the third piece is I want all those things to happen so that I might grow in humility. You know that's. I think that's important.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think too. I think it's almost like a fear of awkwardness to encourage, like I don't know if you've ever felt this, but people you know. Take, maybe your local pastor, and it's an assumption that he doesn't need encouragement. Like right, he preaches every Sunday, he's got this, he's good at this. Like that worship leader you noted. Like right, he preaches every Sunday, he's got this, he's good at this. Like that worship leader you noted.
Speaker 3:It's this assumption that somebody in a position like that, somebody that you're watching, do the thing that they're good at, whether it's host a small group in their home, feed a family right, organize a kids class, put an event on. When you see someone do the thing that God's made them to do, I feel like the enemy. Maybe your flesh can just make you assume that person knows they're good at that, that person doesn't need encouragement, they killed that. But you know, all of us know, even often, in the very things that we're good at, we need somebody to come say like keep going. Hey, this is blessing people, this is helping the body. And I feel like a lot of leaders can not hear encouragement from their people because there's this assumption that they don't need it, when in fact, often they're the people that need it most again not for flattery, but just for the discouragement that can come with doing whatever the thing is God's called you to do.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's so true. I think there's this assumption that people that are doing well and succeeding at what they do, they don't need to be encouraged, and a lot of times they need to be encouraged the most. I can tell you this, and you know this now when you're in ministry leadership the enemy, you're targeted way more, because the enemy knows if he can destroy a marriage, destroy a person's testimony or witness, if he can come after you. I know I wake up every morning within an awareness that Satan hates me. He would love to destroy me, not just because he don't like, he's not impressed with me. He'd love to destroy me because he's just loves destruction, but he would love to destroy me because of what it would do to the name of Christ. He would love it. And so, uh, that's why leaders need to be encouraged, because the enemy doesn't matter how good they're doing. Enemies constantly coming after him, you know, constantly coming after him.
Speaker 1:And so I think, for people you know in in in this topic of encouragement, people that are listening, that I would say be an encourager to your pastors, your small group leaders, the folks that do dGroups in your home or community groups, whatever your church calls them, people that have taken ministry responsibility, encourage them. The lady that you know at our church that plays keys, or they go it's it's moose place sometimes and Adam Garner play sometimes. I just try to tell them man, thank you for using your gifting for the Lord, it's such a blessing. And people like that I think that's what you're saying, it's the example of you think they don't need to be encouraged. They're up there ripping it on that keyboard. They're so good at it, they love it, they're doing such a good job. Yeah, so tell them right. Tell them, tell them you appreciate them Right. A lot of encouragement is saying thank you or I appreciate you. Thank you so much for doing that.
Speaker 3:And the Lord handles how the person receives it, like I've I've had some people say, well, they don't. I don't want to puff them up and I'm like, well, let God handle that I mean yeah and or. Or it's like this awkwardness like well, what if they're awkward when I say that? Or like it feels weird to go up and say, brody, that was such a good sermon. Well, I've never known someone to be like gosh, that was too much encouragement bro know like it's more like always, a response of thank you.
Speaker 3:I, I you would never guess the timing of that. Um, okay, so hebrews 10, 24 let us consider how to stir up one another to love and good works, not neglecting to meet together as this habit of some, but encouraging one another all the more as you see the day drawing near. Okay, the first part. Let us consider how to stir up. I would love to talk about practically. How do we do this? How do we be people that consider other people when we walk into a room, that consider ways to actually stir people up to continue to be faithful to God day in and day out? How have you done that?
Speaker 1:Well, first, the word consider. There is a word that's used several times in the New Testament and it's worth pausing and considering what that word means. It means to look deeply into, to ponder, to think about, to pause and give a lot of consideration. We use the word You're not supposed to use, the word you're defining in the definition. Consider means to give legitimate, intentional, thoughtful consideration, to think about what is true in this. So this is where there's another place, the word Jews, where it says consider yourself dead to sin. One translation says reckon yourself dead to sin. So sometimes the word consider will be reckon. It's like to reckon something is to affirm its legitimate truth, you know. And so to consider how to do this means it just means I'm being intentional, and it means that encouragement from one person to the next may not look the same. Like for some people, um, uh, put your arm around them and give them a little squeeze and just say hey, I love you a lot and I'm praying for you. That may be exactly what that person needs. For the next person, like for me as a man, I'm not going to put my arm around and hug a woman that I know has a past of sexual abuse or something like that, and that that's a physical embrace that's sort of reserved for, I think, for someone. You have very safe, healthy confidence that this is a healthy relationship here. So I'm using that as a as an example. Consider how I might encourage this person. A hug might be what one person needs, you know, but then the next person it might. But. But a hug might do damage to one person you know and the next person it might be um, uh like.
Speaker 1:I know that this person's had a rough week. I happen to know for a fact that this guy, eric, who I'm thinking about at my church, is he's struggling at work right now. I know that Eric's struggling at work. I know that there's a couple at church that I just met, dalton and Tabitha, who lost a three-year-old little boy last year and they've been coming to snow or to I'm sorry, not snowboard to Red Oak. This is a Red Oak family. They've been coming to Red Oak church now for about two months and they're loving it, but they drive an hour and I hadn't met him yet and I met him the other day. Well, I know that they lost their little boy. So I want to consider how I interact with them.
Speaker 1:You know, I want to just consider this other be intentional in the way you interact with somebody. I don't want to walk up and I don't want to walk up to Tabitha and say, hey, how you doing? Okay, hold up, check, check up. She buried a three-year-old eight months ago. I probably can figure out how she's doing. To some degree she's probably doing really crappy. You know you're a mom, you know I'm a dad. Like I can't imagine if somebody asked me how you doing? Like that. But if they said, hey, how are you doing, there's a difference even in the tone, you know, or the way I ask a question.
Speaker 1:So I think to consider means everybody and in that, because what, what Hebrews 10 is speaking of, there is the assembling of the church within the body of Christ. There are people that are in different situations and circumstances and we need to be mindful of where others are. We tend to just, we tend to go Monday to Saturday, do our thing, throttle down. We're a fast paced culture and society and we're just going, going, going, going, we. We wheel into church on Sunday, we grab a cup of coffee, we come into the worship service, we sort of calibrate our minds, we sing a few songs, we'll listen to a sermon and boom, boom, we're right back out running Maybe a few conversations on the way out the door. But it's like stop, give yourself to Sundays, give yourself to the Sabbath, to the Sabbath principle, and so prepare your heart not just to hear the word of God, but prepare your heart to, to, to come into the, the assembling of God's people, and to consider. There are people around you that are hurting. There are people around you that have something to celebrate. You know, like I can think about um, we had a young man in our church a few years ago that won the state championship as a cross country runner, as a freshman in high school and man, when I saw him at church that next week, we celebrated that, you know, and somebody might say, well, he don't need to be celebrated, he just won a state championship. Like back to what you're saying about puffing somebody up, you know, like man, just let's celebrate. God's done something here and so, whatever it is, it could be, it could be anything that a person's going through good, bad or difficult trial or situation, but you know it's.
Speaker 1:I think that idea of considering means be intentional, one of the things I love about our little church, red Oak church, which I say it's a little church. We had 340 people at church Sunday. Our town is 1200 people. Our church attendance by percentage, 25% of the size of our town. That's crazy. People are coming and I'm convinced the reason people are the mayor of the town was there. A couple of police officers were there out of the 23,. Our little one, a high school, out of the 23 faculty members, seven of them were there, like by percentage.
Speaker 1:The impact that's happening, I'm convinced, is because we're a church that has cultivated this, this exact principle Consider one another. We walk through the doors of the church. You're not just there to hear a sermon and then critique it or like it or whatever. You're there to to live in community within the body of Christ. So consider the people around you are going through different stuff.
Speaker 1:I can tell you that I'm sitting in church on Sunday. I didn't preach this past Sunday. I'm sitting in church. I know for a fact the situation with the couple behind me. I know what's going on in their life. They're about five years older than me. I know some very personal stuff that's going on in their life. Just because I've asked the people in front of me. I know exactly what's going on in their life. The people in front of me and one over I know exactly what's going on in their life. Like I know he's just getting a job offer to move to Texas and they're spun out over it, but they feel like it's where God's taking them and I know what they're going through.
Speaker 1:Like everybody in that church should know what everybody not everybody. You're not going to know what everybody's going through, but you should be dialed into where we're considering one another and if you're doing that you're not. That's not faking it till you make it. That's I'm prioritizing. This is my family of faith. The people in his church matter to me. I care about them, you know. And then you take that mindset over into work or school or whatever and just be intentional with people. So I think that first part of that verse means be intentional, know what's going on, don't be, don't just be, fluffy. Hey man, how you doing, awesome. How many times have you been? Have you been asked how you're doing? And you're like I don't think they really want me to answer right right.
Speaker 3:I think what you're saying about just church world like that and red oak being a place of care, and it reminds me I think this is why it's such a huge value for me is is my dad, when we would. When I was growing up, my dad's very calm, nice, encouraging temperament in general. I have very little memory of him getting angry, but he would get angry when any of us in our family would be mean to each other and he would say listen, in this house we build up. When you leave these doors, I can't protect you. The world's going to tear you down. You're going to be not built up, you're going to be torn down. But when you step into this house, there is care and love and kindness in your words. You're going to love each other. And that stuck with me when I came into vocational ministry, because I realized whoa, the temptation inside the church walls is actually to tear down too. There's so much temptation to gossip and not care and compete. But I would go back to what my dad said. I'm like we don't know what's going to happen to us when we go out of these doors. Monday through Saturday, the world, the enemy, our flesh are all trying to destroy us, but when we're together and we have a chance to build up, like, what an impact. I think encouragement can be a tool for evangelism, like just there being a place where you're so strengthened to go back into your secular workplace, to go back into your homes, go back into your kids basketball team game. I just I think we underestimate this so much, the power of just actually considering how to stir one another up and do that well and uh, and and, like I said, the evangelism part one of the things that I've thought of over the last little bit.
Speaker 3:We were at my daughter's pediatrician a month ago and I have no idea where he stands in his faith, but we've had a lot of ups and downs with her health-wise in the first year and a half and he's just been wonderful. And I've thought that a lot Like he's just he's not panicky, he's funny, he's comforting, he's knowledgeable. And it just dawned on me like I've never told this man this, and so right before he left, I had a card for him. I just gave it to him the next time we went. I mean, we're in there, she's got a 103 fever, whatever she's screaming, he opens the door. I'm not even thinking about the card. He's like, hey, that was the most encouraging card I have. He's been doing this for like 25 years. I've ever gotten. And I thought it's because people come in here and he does his job well and they just receive it, but they never just slow down enough to say does he know he's good at this? Does he know he's actually helped me as a young mom?
Speaker 3:learn what it means to take care of my daughter, and so I don't know where he stands in his faith. But in that card I said hey, I think God's made you to do this and I just want to affirm that in you and thank you for being a partner with me.
Speaker 1:So I don't know. Encouragement can be a tool to reach the lost too. I think, yes, that's so good In Romans 12, you're talking about your dad In Romans 12, when our kids were growing up we used Romans 12, 9, I think, as our kind of our home verse. It says let love be genuine. Hate what is evil or abhor what is evil, hold fast to what is good and, um, love one another with brotherly affection. And I think, uh, back to like, like, what your dad is saying is hey, we're going to, we're going to honor one show. It says outdo one another and showing honor, Let love be genuine. I'll do one another show and showing honor and love one another with brotherly affection. We're going to honor one another. Our love is going to be genuine. Their sincerity is important and I'd say that, even in that evangelistic context, what connected with that guy was he? There was sincerity to that act of kindness of you know giving him that card, because people like people just want realness. You know what I mean.
Speaker 3:Yes.
Speaker 1:Just be real.
Speaker 1:Like, if you can't, if you can't be real in the way you extend kindness and affection towards somebody, then then it. Then you can't do what we're talking about you, cause you can't be a fake encourager. This is not one of those things. You fake it till you make it. There's a lot of things in my life I'll fake it till I make it. You know, like there's things where maybe you don't know exactly what you're doing in a, in a at your job, but you're like I gotta figure it out, it's got to figure it out. Well, we've been given instruction on this. We don figure this out. Jesus is our example, um, and the Lord has put his spirit in us. So be genuine, show honor, let your affection be brotherly. You know, um, and I think it impacts people. That's cool, that story about your pediatrician, like it. Just you realize, cause you think people like doctors and pilots and and, uh, you know, professionals, they're just, they're above that, they don't need that.
Speaker 1:There's people made in the image of God, with affection and emotion and fear, and and an enemy in a broken world.
Speaker 3:Like you know they're getting. They're dealing with the same stuff you're dealing with. Yeah, okay, I have a few more questions for you. Last time when I was at dinner with you and little, you were telling me and we you don't need to go into the details of the story, but when you told it I was like I've seen him do this a lot you were telling me how a specific summer staffer had just had a hard week and she hard interactions with the youth pastor she was working with, feeling kind of insecure about how she was handling those interactions. And you told me that you kind of walking me through just how you kind of handled this and you said you know, I called whoever was her supervisor, told that person she has tomorrow off. I opened the tab at morning fog for her and gave her a cup of coffee.
Speaker 3:I told her to go take a nap.
Speaker 3:And then I said you know, spend five, six hours with the Lord that day sleeping, drink coffee, regroup, and then let's debrief. That is what I mean by you lead as an encourager and people wouldn't know that you ever did that, that, that. And so my question to you is this how have you learned to? Because that was the inefficient thing to do. That girl is working with a church, working with a youth pastor. You're telling her take a day off. That you're telling her don't do your job, Somebody else is going to have to cover rec. It's the inefficient option, right? But in that moment you're saying I prioritize this person over the job at hand, and sometimes the job's got to get done. This isn't always practical, but my question to you is I have seen you do that so much. How, as a leader, do you keep the encouragement of your people at the front of your brain over efficiency, getting the job done? You know the reputation of snowbird even. Yeah, I, I admire that you and I want to.
Speaker 1:I want to know about that um, yeah, thanks for bringing that up. I had to think. I wasn't sure what story and, and I remember that specific one. Well, there's this saying I did not make this up and who knows who actually made it up, but the saying is a good shepherd smells like sheep. Right, you've heard that A good shepherd smells like sheep.
Speaker 1:And then, 1 Peter, 4, peter, this is where he teaches about the good shepherd. 1 Peter 4 or 5, it's a teaching about the good shepherd. It's like shepherd, the flock of God, not domineering, not for profit, not for personal gain, and it's like not for this but for this, not for this but for this. It's like not domineering but in love and kindness and compassion, and not, uh, for selfish gain, but basically you're given of yourself. So, uh, the idea is, if you're going to be in leadership, good shepherd smells like the sheep. And that would go for in the secular world too, like if you're a business owner, an employer. So, from you know, for me that's just.
Speaker 1:I don't, I don't even know that, I think about that, I just do it. You know what I mean. Like, um, part of it's, part of it's probably cause it was a girl and I'm a dad to girls. Uh, I will tell you this. I may get emotional saying this. I'm going to try not to, but I try to treat. I try to treat the people that serve under me or with me. I try to imagine I have died, I'm gone, and my daughter is somewhere else under some dude who's leading a ministry. How do I want that guy? To behave.
Speaker 1:How do I want him to behave? Because maybe not in his life, but I'm going to face some dads one day on how I led their kids. I'm going to face some husbands on how I led their wife before he ever became her husband. A guy that marries a girl 15 years from now, who's serving at Snowbird right now. You know, or maybe, hopefully, it's not 15 years, maybe it's five years, yeah.
Speaker 3:For her sake, for her sake yeah.
Speaker 1:But maybe 15 years from now, they're going through a crisis and what she's learning now is going to make her better. In that situation, I want to be able to give an account and so and I think the reason that's one of the reasons the Lord's continue to bless the ministry. And I'll tell you, it's funny, that girl, um, she had told me, uh, she told me after that, so she went, she went to my house. I don't remember. Seriously, I'm not being facetious, but stuff like this happens a lot.
Speaker 3:Oh, I know.
Speaker 1:And I don't remember the exact, but I remember her going to my house and going into our guest room, which is down in the basement. It's really cool down there. It's a really nice little couch and a lamp and a really comfy bed. I'm like, just go down there that next weekend. So gave her the rest of that day off.
Speaker 1:Yes, and go get a coffee, go to the river, leave your phone in your car, go sit by the river, spend time with the Lord. I'm going to talk to the youth pastor. I've got your back. You haven't done anything wrong and it was it had to do with. I don't even remember the circumstance now, but, like I got your back, I'll go talk to him on your behalf. And, uh, but that that next weekend I was like why don't you come? Come over to our house, just go on Saturday, go crash in our guest room downstairs. You know we don't even need to see you come into basement, whatever. So she did that and, um, somewhere in there we got to talking and she said she said you know I was warned about coming to work here and I said by who did I tell you this?
Speaker 3:Yeah, this is the part of the story I love.
Speaker 1:And I said by who? And she said a name and I and I she said a first, a first and last name and I didn't know who this person was, which it's because the person got married and when she, this person had served at Snowbird for a very short period under her maiden name. But I said what did she warn you? And she said that and I don't even remember now you might remember I don't know what she had warned her, that I was, that I was basically going to take advantage of her and and treat her bad and be harsh be Be harsh yeah.
Speaker 3:Which is what I mean the initial and I joke with you that the initial impression of you is this guy's about to go shoot something?
Speaker 1:I'm a hard dude, I know it comes across that way, and so she. Yeah, so okay, this is what I want to tell you. At the end of the summer, she wrote me a note. Oh.
Speaker 1:She handed it to me. Day 88 or whatever it is the last day. Camp ends on Saturday. Remember that we have that church that comes in and they cook two pigs. They start cooking pigs on Friday night. They cook two pigs. We have a massive pig-picking barbecue on Saturday afternoon. Watch the staff video together, together, and everybody leaves and she's walking out. She hands me a car, a card.
Speaker 1:It was a real, real brief note. It just said that person's name. It says she was wrong. She was really wrong, and she just said thank you for, for, basically for, for leading well and taking care of me and caring about me. Um, those, those kinds of moments are very motivating. Those are like those are what I call out of boys from the Lord. But, yeah, I think, um, yeah, and and there the part about me being perceived as being kind of a tough guy that's because I don't put on to be somebody I'm not and that's my natural personality, you know. And so if I tried to present myself as gentle, I don't even know what I'm saying, but you know what I mean. I just be myself.
Speaker 3:Right.
Speaker 1:And myself is oh, that guy's pretty intimidating.
Speaker 3:Right.
Speaker 1:I have this. People think I'm intimidating.
Speaker 3:But that's why I love having this conversation with you is because this topic isn't a personality thing. This is a choice to be an encourager and whether that's your natural bend or not, right, You're one of the toughest guys I know. But what I can testify of is the way that you lead is first as an encourager, and I just think like so that means anybody can make that choice.
Speaker 1:Yes, yes, anybody can do it. Even I would even say you know, we use the, we use the analogy. Again, this is not we didn't make make this up, but we use it in our ministry that a strong man and I would apply this also just to a strong leader, male or female is like a velvet covered brick. You're strong and firm and resolute, you're led by conviction, but you're soft to the touch, like, like there's a softness to the you're. You're sensitive to the touch, like, like there's a softness to the you're. You're sensitive to and aware of the needs of people, and I think that's what good leaders do. But you gotta be aware of them. The only way you're going to be aware of them is go back that Hebrews 10, 24, consider you gotta be intentional. So I would say you have to be genuine or or sincere, authentic, you know, just be real. And then you gotta be um, you gotta be intentional, it doesn't happen accidentally. And then you need to be accessible. And I get it. A person that's leading a ministry of 2,800 people can't be accessible to 2,800 people. But so then, what do you do? You orchestrate and organize a structure where someone is accessible to everyone. Right, because even like our pastor, our lead pastor at Red Oak, there's no way Joseph can be accessible to 350 people, 400 people, he can't.
Speaker 1:A church like this, 2,800 people it's crazy, like, how do you shepherd 2, 400 people? You can't. A church like this, there's 2,800 people. It's crazy, like, how do you shepherd 2,800 people? Well, you shepherd other shepherds who shepherd other shepherds. Right, it's the way the body of Christ works and if everyone's being intentional and if we're driven by genuine love and care for one another and for the body of Christ, we're going to encourage. We're not going to tear down. I got care for one another and for the body of Christ. We're going to encourage, we're not going to tear down. I have like you want to get exited from Snowbird, be negative or tear other people down?
Speaker 1:We won't keep you around, create discord, tear people down. We're going to build up, we're going to strengthen. That's what we're going to do and we're going to be intentional with it.
Speaker 3:So do you find it hard? This is something I find hard when it comes to encouragement. Not hard, just I have to be even more intentional with it Is those closest to you like little, the kids you know? You're just so used to being around them and you're so familiar with what they're good at, what they're not good at. I can sometimes just not even think to look at Tyler, my husband, and say, hey, you're really good at that. Like last night we were at a small group and we got home and a few friends texted him and just said, hey, you have few words, but your words are so wise and calculated that they're helpful and they bring clarity. And I thought, oh yeah, I think that all the time, but I never say that to him because I'm like can you just take the trash out, or three-year-olds or two-year-olds screaming and and so I'd be interested. I feel like you're an encourager as a dad. I feel like you're an encourager as a husband. You know how are you intentional in the most comfortable environments to be like that?
Speaker 1:Yeah, in some ways you have to work harder at it, right, at least for a season. But I think once it's established, it's almost like you don't have to work harder at it. It becomes sort of your first language in the home. Yeah, I mean, you would need to ask my kids. I'd be curious if I wasn't here and you asked them is your dad an encourager? I'd love to hear their answer. I think they would say yes, but it's funny little. I always joke we're so, we're so. Not a typical couple, and every couple says that.
Speaker 1:But you know you're not we are not at all, you know, and and uh, I get tickled because there's people I know I know several couples where, like couples tend to either be one person is really smitten with the other person or there's there's a lot of tension and conflict and little and and I I feel like we gave each other knuckles in bed the other night. I just popped the lamp off, I laid down she's almost asleep and I'd crawl into bed. It was a long day, it was towards the end of summer camp, and I said you awake? She said yeah, and we had a short discussion about something parenting related and uh, I said you know?
Speaker 2:we're pretty good at this and she said yeah, we are. I was like we're pretty good team.
Speaker 1:You know, not that we've got. It's not like an arrogance of we figured parenting. I was like we're pretty good at working together and making stuff, figuring stuff out. Literally I stuck my hand up because neither one of us like to touch when we're sleeping. Don't touch me. We've got a massive California king. You get on that side, I'll get on this side. It's kind of like the Wonder Twins knuckle bump and fist bump.
Speaker 1:Little and I, we have a unique relationship where she is not a verbal encourager to me. Um, I, but I would not do good. I wouldn't want to be married to a wife. We've married 31 years, a long time. I wouldn't want to be married to a wife. That puffed me up. That was like real flattering and I know some couples like that and it works for them, but it wouldn't work for us. For me it'd feel weird, It'd be awkward.
Speaker 1:But the way that little encourages me is when a hint of a crisis occurs, she calls me. Is when a hint of a crisis occurs, she calls me. She calls like and it doesn't matter how bad of a crisis it is, she's calling me because she trusts me and because we're going to do it together. We're in it together, and so I know that where that really gets amplified is little, has a heart for ministry and she ministers to um, single moms, abused women, uh, people with addiction in their past. We have fostered, as you know, a good bit that's kind of her world.
Speaker 1:The Penwell tutoring program is a lot of kids and and single mom and grandma families that she minister ministers to there and single mom and grandma families that she minister ministers to there, and like she she'll call me she called me yesterday and said, hey, and she named a guy who's ex wife. They're they're not even divorced yet, They've been split up for a couple of years but little's helping this single mom and she's got two kids from a previous relationship and one kid from this guy and this guy's threatened her and she said, hey, I might need you to go see him and I'm like, okay, why don't we? Let's call the police, but like that to me that she called she thinks that she believes you got it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, like that's way.
Speaker 1:that means way more to me than if she gave me a compliment, right, you know what I mean.
Speaker 3:Which is back to what you're saying originally know, know the people you're encouraging, and and that probably so applies most to the people closest to you yeah that's right, yeah, for sure.
Speaker 1:And then, as parents, what I would say to parents and this gets into this would be a cool whole other episode but as parents, you need to understand what it takes to encourage your child, what it takes to motivate your child, how you need to discipline your child and you're not being an inconsistent or bad parent if you do that differently from kid to kid. I used to think I I just assumed when I became a parent that what worked for one kid, I need to come up with a system that I can apply to all. Two, three, four, five kids. How many you got? So if this is how we're going to do discipline across the board, this is how we're going to do discipline.
Speaker 3:And.
Speaker 1:I had.
Speaker 1:You know I had to come to grips with the fact that that's not. I got to figure each kid out. One kid will respond really well to something that another kid might spin out of control over or shut down over. One kid might square their shoulders up when you're speaking to them in a tone of discipline. They might square their shoulders up and look you dead in the eyes with their arms crossed, with the look of defiance. Where the next kid? If you speak to them and say the same thing in the same tone of voice, they completely shut down and melt. They go into almost a fetal position. They cross their arms, but it's more in a protective. They tuck their head and they slump their shoulders. You got two kids. You've reacted the same way to both these kids, but they've reacted completely differently.
Speaker 1:So, as a parent to, if you're going to encourage your children, you've got to figure out what that looks like. How do I discipline them? How do I motivate them? How do I reward them? And I'm not a child psychologist, I just been doing this a long time. You know I'm not speaking from cause I got a degree in this or cause this was what my, my professional background was in. This is I've been a dad for a long time and but then I've also had 250,000 students come through snowbird, where I've seen the effects of good parenting and I've seen the effects of bad parenting. It's a huge um case study. Basically, it's a massive sample size, and so I would say, to be an encourager in the home, you still it's.
Speaker 1:The same principles apply. You have to be intentional, you have to consider what it's going to take to encourage each person. You need to be. For me and Little, every single morning there's going to be a kind and gentle word, there's going to be a kind and gentle touch before I leave the house, cause I don't know if I'm coming home. We're not promising anything and I want the last thing that happened to be kindness and gentleness, you know, and love expressed. So this morning and little I don't have a clue where I'm going.
Speaker 1:She I was in Jacksonville, florida, two weeks ago. I'm in Jackson, freaking Ville, florida had planned it. She knew I was going Jacksonville, florida two weeks ago. I'm in Jackson, freakingville, florida, had planned it. She knew I was going. It's on the schedule. I laid out my itinerary and she calls me and says, hey, where you at right now. And I said I'm in Duval County, florida, I'm in Jacksonville, florida, and she said, oh really. And I said yeah, yes, yes. Where did you think I was in with this, like, and I had left the house at five that morning and this is at three in the afternoon and I'll leave the house sometime.
Speaker 1:She don't see me in the morning and so it was like, uh, we, we got a really good laugh out of that. She's like oh yeah, I forgot you were going down there, but when I can, I'm going to speak. I want to be intentional with my words and I think man, so many homes, people, just be intentional to show kindness, to show kindness and honor and sincerity and genuine love, and so the home is. I think these things you got to be even more focused and intentional because it is easy to get comfortable and but also I don't I wouldn't respond well to a bunch of compliments from my wife every day. I don't think I would appreciate that, but I appreciate her occasionally saying something positive you know to recognize and appreciate, you know, um, and so, yeah, just trying to trying to be intentional and knowing what your, what your spouse is like, what your children are like, and being intentional with that I've often thought when I've been at funerals.
Speaker 3:You know you hear these eulogies and I'm like gosh I hope that person knew you thought that while they were alive, like cause, it'll just be this beautiful moment of honor, and I'm like man.
Speaker 3:I hope you told them that, show them that I hope they would sit on this row and say I knew she felt that way and I've thought that a lot like in marriage. I've thought that about my parents, my brother, just people that are closest to me, my dearest friends, like I mean, I would just pour my heart out in a eulogy for all those people, but I want them to know while they're breathing, I honor you in this way and I hope you just keep being this kind of person.
Speaker 3:My dad, like I said, this is his strong suit. He has said to me if, like on his tombstone, we said faithful to Jesus and my wife and kids knew I loved them, that was good enough and I'm like oh dad like okay, we'll write it.
Speaker 3:I'm like it's written, we'll do it, and so he has just always been a guy to go out of his way of like you could burn this world down, brooke, and I'd be there and I'm for you and I love you. And I think I didn't get the power of that until being an adult and realizing that kind of love and encouragement. Home my mom is very similar, dad just led in this, but that kind of love and encouragement, it just forms a human in a healthy way. You know, know, we need that in the home and, um, I'm thankful for that example.
Speaker 1:so you should always. I love that. That's beautiful. I love that I that that's very meaningful for me as a dad to hear and it's motivating and I've never even met your dad and so I'm really grateful to hear it. When laylee so laylee, you'd never know this, but Lailie, who's on this? She was on here about two, three months ago. I interviewed her JB and I sat down with her and Lailie was like you know, she was an athlete. You were an athlete and I loved going to watch her play basketball. I loved going to her volleyball games. I loved going to her soccer games. That was her thing. I watched her play basketball. I love going to her volleyball games. I love going to her soccer games. That was her thing. She was. You know she was. Whatever you win awards at the state level, you know she's very accomplished. But I would always say to her after her games I really, really, really like watching you play soccer.
Speaker 3:I really really love watching you play volleyball.
Speaker 1:Never about what she did, yeah, yeah. And I think if, as as dads and moms, if we can figure out how to just make sure that our value system is intrinsic. It's I'm bestowing love on you. You're not earning that from me. I think that's genuine love for a parent or a spouse. It's unearned love, because that's how God loves us. It's intrinsic, it's not earned.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, so good. Okay, I this morning was reading a book I'm going through and it's just one of those moments where you're like God wanted us to have this conversation, and the chapter I was in had a little thing on encouragement. I thought this was just so helpful. Okay, he says this To encourage literally means to put courage into someone. It is to notice someone's actions and then to put the courage in them to keep acting that way and boldly expressing that part of themselves. When you did blank, it looked a lot like redemption. Keep doing your part in redemption. When you encourage someone, you're not just being nice, you're being like God, you're acting in harmony with the Spirit. How often do you use your words for that purpose? So what have you admired in someone else but have never said to their face? Encourage them. What encouraging thought has passed through your mind but never made its way to your lips? Say it so helpful. That was this morning.
Speaker 1:So good and I was like and it's what we're talking about, this is what we're talking about that book's, not on encouragement, so it just I don't know.
Speaker 3:That would be maybe how I would end. This is saying be, someone that just says what you see God doing around you in other people's lives, in your family, in your workplace, in the business world, in being a teacher, being a preschool director, being on church staff camp ministry pastor Just consider how you can be in other people's lives someone that says what you see God doing.
Speaker 1:Yes, and I like that because it's what he or she, what he's saying there is encouragement. To go back to a definition of it or a working definition would be. Encouragement is going to motivate people to continue to press on, to persevere, to endure, to labor, to toil, to sweat, to work, to love, to take risks, to keep moving forward with purpose. That's way different than saying nice things to somebody to make them feel good.
Speaker 3:Yes.
Speaker 1:You can say something nice to somebody to make them feel good. But I'm looking there's. There's a box of uh cookies or muffins or something over there on the counter. If someone, if someone's a really good cook, or if they, if they bake really well and they bake some really good bread, and you say that bread is so good, so good, that may not motivate them to keep baking more bread, but it is going to make them appreciate that you appreciate what they've done. So there is that kind of encouragement You're recognizing somebody's work or investment and appreciate.
Speaker 1:But what this guy's saying is, in the bigger picture of motivating the kingdom work of believers, investing in believers, if I'm going to encourage somebody, it's going to motivate them to continue. It's going to charge their battery. I'm going to. If I'm going to encourage somebody, it's going to motivate them to continue. It's going to charge their battery, it's going to fill their tank. And I think that's what this kind of two categories of encouragement that recognizing what somebody's done and just being appreciative, thanking them. Thank you for this bread, this was amazing. Thank you for this meal you prepared for me, thank you's so good. That's encouraging. But then what that guy's saying I love because it's like, hey, what you're doing is making kingdom impact.
Speaker 1:Well, that motivates you to keep doing it right just motivates you and and I appreciate that you you know the thing you said earlier about puffing up. Some people are hesitant, hesitant to give any kind of a compliment, because they don't want to puff somebody up. It's funny. Sometimes I'll get an email or a text and it'll say, or somebody will say to me I don't want to, I'm not trying to boost your ego, and then they'll give a compliment. I'm like are you really?
Speaker 3:complimenting me or do you feel like an obligation to say something nice to me, right?
Speaker 1:now, don't quantify it right, just say it. Be free with it. Yeah, trust, like you said, that's between that person and the lord right.
Speaker 3:Just encourage them and this is something like as a young leader and this probably has some selfish undertones, so take it with what you want. But and I didn't realize this but like when you're an encourager and when you encourage up as a young leader, so like what I mean, like when I served under you, I wanted to, I wasn't scared to encourage up to you, like, hey, thank you for that staff training talk. That was really really helpful for my faith today, thank you. Or now, when I'm serving vocationally at a church, the guys ahead of me a lot of times young leaders it's like like they feel like they don't have the ability, like the accessibility to you know, oh, it'd be weird for me, like Brody doesn't need that and I'm under him, and like he's good at that and and that's just not my place, it's his place to encourage me. But when you're a young leader again, doesn't just have to be ministries, it could be any place. I really think you stand out when you're someone who just leads by being an encourager. Be the loudest encourager in the room as the youngest person. Don't go in there teaching, don't go in there thinking. You know everything. Go in there naming. Hey, you were so good at that You're so good at that. And it's funny like we use Slack I don't know if you know what that is. It's like a kind of like a business group me as our staff communication.
Speaker 3:And for several years here, because I was one of the youngest I was always like, like our head guy, her head pastor, would have an amazing sermon and I would just want to put it in there in front of everybody. Like hey, that was so good today. Thank you for saying that. Or we had a worship night the other night and I wanted to put it in there. Our worship guide, just how helpful it was, just such a good night.
Speaker 3:And I used to be super hesitant, like I don't know. Just something about, like oh, is this my place? Like shouldn't somebody else be doing this? And I've just become someone that I'm like, if I think it, I want to put it in there and I want to put it in front of the other people, cause I want to say everybody, we all thought that was awesome. Nobody's really saying it, but I want to say that and I've just, I've just seen that give people a lot of wind in their sails and and it's, it's, it's allowed me to have sometimes a voice in the room because they know I'm coming in positive and I really am, before I'm going to be maybe critiquing something or negative or think something could be better. It's like it almost opens up your ability to lead when you're just someone that adds value by encouraging.
Speaker 1:That's so good, that's really good.
Speaker 3:And be genuine about it.
Speaker 1:Do you know?
Speaker 3:anybody can do that Anybody. Anybody can do that Anybody. Anybody can do that, you're you're a teacher, you have administration over you, encourage them. You're a business guy, you have a CEO, encourage them. Like, um, you're in a campus ministry, you have direct national directors like, encourage them. Nobody doesn't need encouragement.
Speaker 3:You know there's nobody that's like high enough that doesn't need you to say great job and, and I've just learned, that gets you respect and it gets you trust that you're somebody that's for people and I think that's helpful. So, okay, anything we didn't talk about that you want to talk about.
Speaker 1:No, I think that's it. I think I really like where we landed this, especially that last quote. Being an encourager is going to motivate people to continue. Keep their hand to the plow, keep your eyes on Jesus. Remember when you're teaching a kid how to ride a bike and you give them something to look at that's way out there, because if they're looking down at the wheel, it starts to wobble. I'm acting this out right now, guys, like you know, you're turning left, the handlebar's wobbling. As they start to gain the balance they need to ride on that bike, you say, hey, look at that tree and ride towards it. And that's that's us, man, like. Fix your eyes on Jesus. We're all moving Literally, the scripture tells us this to fix our eyes on Jesus.
Speaker 1:But in that journey, in that process, as disciples of Christ, we need to be encouraged. God has instructed us to do this for one another, so we should, and, and and I think the simplest way to do it for a lot of people is going to be make a list of people that you want to target this week and either jot down a note on a three by five card or send them a text. Man, it's so easy with phones now you know voice memo.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so easy, so easy to do it. Um, I I did it to a couple people today on the drive down, guys that I know are struggling in ministry right now. Hey, man, I'm in it with you, praying for you, keep going. So, yeah, thanks, this was fun.
Speaker 3:It was fun for me too.
Speaker 1:I like flipping over to this side and being more the person answering questions. That's cool, good more the person answering questions.
Speaker 1:That's cool, good, good For all the ladies that listen. Just wanted to make sure you're aware that Brooke will be at Respond, the upcoming Respond conference, which will be the 2026 Respond conference, which is our women's conference that we host in the spring, and she'll be one of the keynote speakers. She always does a phenomenal job. Brooke is an incredible communicator. I'm real excited about the lineup of ladies that are dialed in and speaking at this event that we've got coming up and the Respond Conference next spring. The teaching focus is going to be the women who are in the line of Christ. In the line of Christ, which most people feel confident that, if not all, the majority, for sure of those ladies that are mentioned in Jesus's lineage, specifically Matthew, those five ladies that most, if not all, were Gentiles, and so there's just a lot going on with them being grafted in, and then they're women of, you know, ill repute, I guess would be the way you would word it. So you've got Tamar, and then Rahab, ruth, bathsheba and then Mary, who's not a woman of low esteem or like reputation, but that's what she got tagged with, you know, for being found with child, and so, anyway, it'll be a good teaching series. We haven't done that. It's kind of to me a go-to type session or top topic for a women's conference or for girls, and so because of that, we've sort of stayed away from it, just because it felt like, well, that's probably what everybody expects us to do. But, man, we're going to do it. I'm excited for these ladies that are going to be teaching. Brooke's one of the ones that will be bringing the word and teaching at Respond. So make sure you're signed up for that, if you're not already, or get signed up, and then we're going to be recording some more. Brooke and I think are going to start doing this ever so often, so we'll be looking forward to that. I always enjoy talking to her. She's such an incredibly gifted communicator man. She's so, so gifted and wants to use those gifts and talents for the Lord and I'm just I'm proud of her and thankful for her. I've known Brooke since she was about 13 or 14. So awesome to watch the Lord grow her into a godly woman and mama and wife and ministry leader, and so it's an honor to have her on.
Speaker 1:Hope that you got something out of this episode today and next up we've got some bonus episodes coming up. I want to make you aware of. We're going to be doing some debrief from the summer, but we've also got some things that we're going to be addressing that have recently come into the news and that has to do with penal substitutionary atonement, a major core, key doctrine that we hold to and consider it a heel worth dying on, and it's kind of it's one of those things that's always under attack. Every generation in the church seems like this comes under attack. So, anyway, we're gonna sit down. I haven't done this yet. We're gonna sit down today as this episode's dropping.
Speaker 1:We'll be filming our teaching team and we're gonna be working through thoughts on that, some statements that have been made, a book that's come out recently and we're shifting, actually, the focus for our Be Strong Conference next month. We're shifting it. We're flipping the 2026 Fall Conference teaching focus with this year's focus. We're flipping those because we were going to be talking about penal substitutionary atonement in 2026 Fall Conference. But we're going to go ahead and flip that and we're going to. We're going to make that the main point and focus of this year's conference. So we'll be recording a conversation on that, uh later today and we'll get that up as a bonus episode this week.
Speaker 1:So watch for that. All right, thank y'all, as always, for for listening and supporting NSR. If you don't have the book, grab the book, go to the gear store, get it and uh. And then the other thing is uh, next week I'm going to, or the week after I've got it on the schedule, to read just comments, quotes. We've had a ton of them, lots of feedback. I'm gonna do an episode where we just read readers comments and a lot of feedback. So looking forward to that. Thank y'all, have an awesome week.
Speaker 2:Thanks for listening to no Sanity Required. Please take a moment to subscribe and leave a rating. It really helps. Visit us at SWOutfitterscom to see all of our programming and resources, and we'll see you next week on no Sanity Required.
