No Sanity Required
No Sanity Required is a weekly podcast hosted by Brody Holloway and Snowbird Outfitters. Each week, we engage culture and personal stories with a Gospel-driven perspective. Our mission is to equip the Church to pierce the darkness with the light of Christ by sharing the vision, ideas, and passions God has used to carry us through 26 years of student ministry. Find more content at swoutfitters.com.
No Sanity Required
Leaving Comfort, Finding Calling | No Sanity Stories
On this episode, Brody interviews Joseph Wainwright, one of the newest members of the SWO team! Joseph’s life took a dramatic turn—from battling addiction and nearly losing his family to finding purpose in Christ and stepping into ministry. What began as a reluctant visit to a men’s conference opened his eyes to a deeper understanding of faith and biblical masculinity.
With the support of his wife Ashley, biblical counseling, and the church, Joseph’s life and marriage were transformed. He eventually left a successful construction career to follow God’s call and join the SWO staff.
Tune in to hear how God used brokenness to build something better—and how the Wainwrights discovered that true blessing comes through surrender.
- Marriage Conference
- Men’s Be Strong Conference
- Respond Women’s Retreat
- Blair Bailey’s Interview “Addiction, Abuse, and Redemption”
Please leave a review on Apple or Spotify to help improve No Sanity Required and help others grow in their faith.
Click here to get our Colossians Bible study.
Well, I just got done talking with Joseph Wainwright. Joseph is the newest well, one of the newest members of the SWO team. We've had an awesome uptick I guess you would call it just several new additions in the last few months to our core team here, our main team Joseph Wainwright, andy Miller, who's our new food service director, and then Sam Habacker, who's our new food service director, and then Sam Haybecker who is working in the maintenance department. So, uh, on the operation side of camp when I say operations, if you come to SWO, these are people that maybe you're not going to see as as as prominently. They're not going to be on the stage, you're not going to be leading breakouts, they're not going to be necessarily working hands-on with students, but they all have the same heart and desire to see the ministry do what God's called us to do, and so they're. They're in a lot of ways they're more behind the scenes, selfless, just humble folks and but hard-working guys and gals. And so I'm excited for for y'all to get to hear from Joseph and meet Joseph. Uh, he's, he's got a really cool gospel story that that I. I learned his story as I was meeting him, and Joseph is one of those no sanity stories where he came to SWO under the urging of a friend who got him to come to a men's conference here. He came to a be strong and he told me recently that he did not want to come to that and he he fought it and ended up here. Just him and this guy and uh Lord used it in a big way in his life. It eventually impacted his marriage, used uh used the respond women's conference in his wife Ashley's life. They came then started coming to our marriage conferences.
Speaker 1:Joseph has an incredible skill set in terms of land development. He's worked on major highway systems, interstate systems as a supervisor, superintendent, high-level foreman, and so he brings a lot to the table. So the thing that I'm excited about is we talk about expansion, growth, development. Joseph is a guy that's going to have a key, he's going to play a key role in that and so we're excited to have him. So I know you're going to enjoy listening to our conversation. Just very encouraging to hear the power of the gospel in a person's life and for us very encouraging to see God use SWO to impact someone's life and, in fact, impact an entire family. And now they're here serving with us. It's just a cool story, full circle story, so hope you enjoy this. Thanks for tuning in. Welcome to no Sanity Required.
Speaker 2:Welcome to no Sanity Required from the Ministry of Snowbird Wilderness Outfitters. A podcast about the Bible, culture and stories from around the globe.
Speaker 1:I think the best place to start this episode is to tell your latest snowbird story, which you don't have a lot of snowbird stories.
Speaker 3:You only been here since november yeah, that's all right, october, we're making up for lost time um, joseph shot a big turkey yesterday.
Speaker 1:Hank and joseph had an, an impromptu. You were working, right it's supposed to be. I mean, everybody was working. And then the text goes out yeah, everybody's working. I didn't get to text. Crock knew not to put me on the text list because not because, uh, because I would.
Speaker 3:He doesn't trust how I would manage that situation well, I just I seen it come through on the group me that there was turkeys on the new property and so I had to go look, and when I found them I thought I don't have no camo in my truck. I got my gun, so I called hank. I said where you at and he was in town. So I said well, you hurry up and I'll watch them till you get here and then we put a plan together and snuck around, shot one in the face hank shot one too, and it got away.
Speaker 1:That's well, I'll let him tell that that's that's what the legend is. I'm sure hank will neither confirm nor deny, yeah, that allegation. But I'll tell you this I've been. I mean that y farm, the property we bought. There's always been turkeys on it and it's because there's guys over there where that turkey ended up. Those guys over there they feed and they kind of watch them all year. It's a couple guys. I won't say their names Because I'll run into them in town and they'll ask me y'all killing turkeys they're.
Speaker 1:What they're doing is they're fishing for information they're trying to figure them out yeah yeah, see any turkeys, you know, or hogs or whatever, and I always just down and play it down, you know, and uh, but there you you always see. So those, those three gobblers that you saw came out of the group. Last year there were there were three jakes, so those are two-year-old birds and last year they just all summer lived out there in that field.
Speaker 1:This was the wildest thing, and me and hank would see them a lot and uh, so that's pretty cool like it's the first time it's been like birds are born on the pro and animals born on our property and ends up getting taken yeah, once it's at maturity, that's pretty cool.
Speaker 3:Anyway, welcome to swo yeah, best job I ever had best job I ever had, me and joseph, always.
Speaker 1:Uh, I don't know if y'all have seen that movie fury. It's uh, it's got shia labeouf, john bernthal, brad pitt, and I forget the other guy's name, I don't know if he was famous or not, but it's about a world war ii tank. You seen that jb world war ii tank crew and uh, I mean, it's a gritty movie, it's so good, but they're, you know, they're in combat in the tank and they're saying to each other is best job ever had. So that's me and joseph we say that a lot best job ever had. Um, so let's just get into, uh, what let's start with? When did y'all get here? Talk a little bit about your family. Who start with? When did y'all get here? Talk a little bit about your family. Who you got here? Y'all been here since October.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so me and my wife Ashley, we got four kids, Levi's 11, Sawyer's 9,. Paisley's 7, and Emmy's 5. So they're lined up right now 5, 7, 9, 11. One of them will have a birthday and it'll throw it out of alignment.
Speaker 3:But we're up right now 5, 7, 9, 11. One of them will have a birthday and it'll throw it out of alignment, but we're good right now. So we moved here, we moved into the barn in October, like the end of October of last year, and then I think we closed on our house and moved into our house in. November, end of November, something like that.
Speaker 1:Okay, okay, so been here then just a few months into our house in november, end of november, something like that. Okay, so been here then just a few months yeah, it ain't been long.
Speaker 3:I mean it feels like we've been here forever.
Speaker 1:But yeah, snowbird years are like dog years.
Speaker 3:Snowbird days are like dog days yeah, I mean, I think we just hit five months yeah, a little over five months we do more in a normal day or week than most jobs.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Well, it just feels like we've been here forever. It's just been at home.
Speaker 1:Well, you're working with the same people. We pack so much into a week and it's not like we're working harder or more by volume, there's just more going on at. Snowbird. Life is coming, so life and work are integrated, so that's probably been a big adjustment. How's that been?
Speaker 3:it's been an adjustment because it's it's, uh, it's been awesome, but we're never really been in a really tight community. We've always had families around us and friends and people that supported us. But it's like, well, when we first moved here, everything went wrong the front end of my truck, pretty much the front tire literally fell off in the driveway. The house we bought was just covered up in mold and mildew and everything else and I just remember the amount of people that didn't know us that just showed up and we're like hey, I'm here to help, how can I help?
Speaker 3:you know jeff went out of his way to get my personal truck towed and took care of that, so that wasn't on my plate. And guys just showing up at the house 10, 11 o'clock at night hey, let's lay some floors just the people that showed up when we were really overwhelmed and the lord really orchestrated that to build some relationships really quickly and so that's been awesome. And then I mean you go anywhere in andrews and it's just snowbird yeah, soccer practice it's like staff meeting yeah, you
Speaker 1:know, so it's pretty cool yeah, pretty big footprint it is. You got, you know, 70 people here on a normal day in the off season and then you throw in families and I mean we're we're pushing 200 people, yeah strong in a community of 1200,200 people. 1,500 people, so I mean the greater Andrews area is maybe 2,000 people, so 10% of the population. That's a pretty good footprint, yeah, which is why some people love us and some people are annoyed by us. You'll learn that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I haven't had that part yet.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Everybody seems to have had any negative experiences yeah except for that lady at the dump. She don't like me lady, she don't like nobody no well, just because I threw something in there I wasn't supposed to in the dumpsters yes, you don't like nobody.
Speaker 1:So let's, let's go into where y'all came from, what you were doing before you got here. We're going to jump back and the main reason we got you here is kind of twofold. I want to introduce people to you. We've got several new guys on staff right now and want to introduce the folks that listen to this, watch this, that are more in the snowboard community, want to introduce those people to our newer folks so that people can put a name with a face and hear. It's one thing to talk about how we're developing land or we're building a program. We're expanding the Element program. We're going to be highlighting element here in a couple of weeks and it's our high school discipleship training program. It's one thing to talk about how we're expanding in the marketing or media department or we're building a new dining hall, but we talk about the people that are coming here as Snowbird grows, the people that are coming here to grow and expand this thing with us. We want our supporters, viewers, listeners, partners to meet those people, know those people.
Speaker 1:So, you guys, part of the goal is for folks just to see and learn who you are so that when they come to an event here oh, I, I listened to the podcast. I you know I really enjoyed that, or whatever. And then the other reason is we have people on here. We have what we call no sanity stories. You've been you were an nsr listener before I knew you yes, yeah, before you were. You know, you came to swo uh, before we had ever communicated you started listening to SR. So you're familiar with our no sanity stories. We look at the effect of the gospel in people's lives and the way it changes people, and so we do want to get into that, because y'all have very much a no sanity story. But talk a little bit about where you came from, what you were doing before you got here, what you know, kind of what that transition was.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so moved here from Concord just outside of Charlotte. I was working for a company called Blass Construction. I'd been there 11 years when I left and at the time I left I was a roadway superintendent on interstate projects.
Speaker 1:So I managed or helped manage interstate construction heavy highway work for 11 years and I think big project that you were on was that, that perimeter around Charlotte.
Speaker 3:Yeah Well, in 11 years I was only on three jobs long-term. We completed the I-485 loop in Charlotte. We completed the circle. That was my first job. We did 85 northbound going from Concord into Salisbury. We widened those five miles and then I got promoted in August of 2019 to superintendent and that's when we started widening I-485 down in South Charlotte like the Ballantyne area.
Speaker 1:And that's what you were doing when you made the move.
Speaker 3:That's what I was doing when I came here.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:Cool.
Speaker 1:So that kind of ties into why it's exciting to have a guy with your skill set, why it's exciting to have a guy with your skill set. Which little known fact there is an excavator. Heavy equipment Olympics.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:In the state of North Carolina.
Speaker 3:Well, it's called a rodeo. A rodeo, yeah.
Speaker 1:And you got robbed. I did. I'm still a little bitter about it Because you ended up taking him he cheated, you took second place. Yeah, cheaters never win. No, he got whooped at the next round too.
Speaker 3:Yeah, come back on him. Yeah, he beat me by like three seconds, but he plotted it out. He watched the whole competition and practiced.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So what is a rodeo? An excavator rodeo?
Speaker 3:Well, this was three pieces of equipment. Okay, so you had a skid steer and you would put a a basketball in the bucket and go through an obstacle course, can't? Let the basketball come out Like over whoopty do's and and then you come around and you can dump that basketball into a 50 gallon drum for extra points.
Speaker 1:Oh, and then the second, make the shot.
Speaker 3:No, I missed If I'd have made the basketball.
Speaker 1:I would have whooped him.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah. But that was the first one I did where I didn't even realize that I had a shot. I was just. I took a couple of foremans up there and, uh, they're like man, do it with you, yeah. And then we did the excavator. So you got a bunch of traffic cones out in front of you and they had volleyballs on them and you would scoop the volleyball off the cone, spin around and drop that in a barrel. And then they had like a tennis ball. For extra bonus points you get the tennis ball, put it in the barrel and everything's timed okay, so they're recording your time.
Speaker 3:And then they had a loader where you had to move x amount of weight like stone, scoop up stone and move it over here and dump it out and you had to get within like 100 pounds. I think we had to move like 2 000 pounds of stone. Track loader or rubber tire this is rubber tire loader.
Speaker 1:Okay, yeah oh man, that's pretty cool.
Speaker 3:It was pretty cool you got robbed I did.
Speaker 1:You should be wearing them.
Speaker 3:It was funny cause the cat guy showed up to work a couple of weeks later and I've got a Yeti cooler from cat now that's got the excavator on it and it says Caterpillar. Yeah.
Speaker 1:He brought it to me, I was pretty excited. Heck, yeah, that's awesome, that's a good prize, that's a real good prize. So that kind of ties into before we get into your story. Last thing is as SWO develops and grows and we're looking forward you can play a vital role in that. That's in your wheelhouse. Big land development.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's what I love to do.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's exciting to have somebody that can kind of bring expertise to the table. And one of the things I always want to do and be at SWO is I want to have people that would be tops in their field in the secular world, and I feel like that's the team we've got right now. Yeah, I mean I'd charge hell with a water pistol, you know, with this team spiritually, but then when it comes to like we go start any business we wanted, I mean we can build anything. We can build anything. Yeah, I love it, man, it's so cool.
Speaker 1:Um, so let's get into your story. I'll set it up by saying that in 2021, I received an email from you and I believe it was in the fall of that year, first time I'd ever heard from you. You and your wife had just attended you and Ashley had just attended the marriage retreat that October. Yeah, and you reached out and just said hey, man, just want to touch base, let you know. It was just, basically, it was an encouragement to me. Hey, you're making a difference, swo's making a difference. Never knew who you guys were a year ago, came to be strong, now brought my wife to Marriage Retreat and that really impacted y'all. So let's walk through that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so a buddy of mine, Ryan Von Cannon, I think it was 2009,. He did the old school program. And I think he worked a summer and me and Ashley had just come through some really rough stuff. What was that like? What did y'all come through? Infidelity on my part early on in our marriage and I was just. I drank all the time.
Speaker 3:I was selfish and I just did whatever I wanted to do, and, um, the Lord just pulled that out into the light in 2017. And um, that's when Ashley surrendered her life to the Lord is the night that I left.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 3:And I just kind of continued on this path of just alcohol and poor decisions. And then I noticed the way she treated me, because it wasn't the way she should have been treating me. The way she treated me because it wasn't the way she should have been treating me, the person who should have hated my guts, who I left with three young kids on her own, was sending me text messages like, hey, I'm praying for you today. Me and the kids prayed for you today. And so I just I hit rock bottom. Then I was sitting on a bed contemplating suicide.
Speaker 3:And that's when it kind of went off in my head and as far as whatever she's got, because I was kind of wrestling with it in my head in that moment because it was like, well, look how much happier she is without me. I haven't seen her this happy in forever. And then, um, I just remember thinking, man, it's not. And so I was like, well, if I'm not there, she's just going to continue to be happy, like that just solves everybody's problem. I don't have to face the reality of my decisions and consequences. And then, man, I'm not going to say the Lord audibly spoke to me, but the impression on my heart in that moment was so real that I got up to look and see if my friend was yelling at me from down the stairs and it was two words quit running.
Speaker 3:And December 19th 2017, 2017. The lord broke my heart and I just poured it all out to him. And, through years of counseling, and you know, ultimately, not long after that, a couple months after that, ashley's like hey, I don't feel like the Lord's going to allow me to walk away from this relationship Like we need to. We need to fight for this.
Speaker 1:So you, when you surrendered to the Lord December 19th of 2017, y'all are split up. You didn't immediately get back together.
Speaker 3:No, we didn't.
Speaker 1:Where were you?
Speaker 3:staying. I'd moved in with a buddy of mine. He's a retired helicopter pilot, he's a good bit older than me, and so there was a. The Lord used him in a way to just kind of provide, I guess, some protection from stupid decisions I was making, and so I had a place where I could live rent free, because I was like I knew what I had done was completely wrong and like there wasn't anything I could do about that. But I made sure like I'm not there but I'm paying for everything y'all need. I moved out Like you can have the house I don't, you know. And so he called me and was like hey, man, you're moving in with me and this is where you're living. And he had fixed an apartment up above his garage. So I was living with him at the time, gotcha.
Speaker 3:And so then it was like probably a few months of me really trying to pursue the Lord and trying to figure everything out, and Ashley was kind of staying back at a distance, like I don't know about this, you know. And then, like we signed separation papers, we were done, and then I just remember her coming to me and she's like I don't feel like the Lord's calling me to leave this relationship and the next couple years were pretty rough. Just you know, I think we were naive and and how easy it would be to just come back from that. Ultimately, I wound up getting some some sound biblical counseling. Um, it's pretty crazy because that's just like, hey, I think you need counseling. I was like, all right, well, where do you go for that? You know, and I had never believed it. I say I didn't believe in any of that but I was like I'm not going to as a counselor. But she said you need counseling.
Speaker 3:So I picked up the phone, googled Christian counseling in Concord, called the first number on the list it was West counseling, and the lady answered the phone and I said I need, I need to speak to somebody and I need to speak to them now, I don't have time to wait. And she said, well, robert has got an appointment tomorrow. Perfect, I'll take Robert. I didn't know anything about him. I walk in his office. He's got his divinity or his master's in divinity. He specializes in alcohol abuse, sex addiction and restoring marriages, in alcohol abuse, sex addiction and restoring marriages. And it was so for like two years probably. Well, a year, year and a half. Me and Robert met twice a week and he really helped me as far as the biggest thing we worked through, because, even though Ashley told me she forgave me and even though I grew up here and all of the, you know Jesus died for my sins, I didn't know how to live in that.
Speaker 3:I didn't know how to take hold in that, because I didn't, I didn't realize that he had died for my shame and my guilt too, you know and so that's really, what we worked through was being able to live in that forgiveness and not spend every day thinking about yeah, but you're the guy that did this, you're the guy that did that.
Speaker 1:Um so you're, you're, you're growing, but it seems like the thing that's helping is the counseling and your commitment, each other. What was your church situation? Was it healthy at that point or not quite what you? Maybe? You, looking back, not quite, maybe what you needed.
Speaker 3:It was a little bit of all, because at the start of it, when we first separated, we weren't really going to church. We would periodically go to the church I grew up in, but I wouldn't say it was consistent Um. And then when I left, ashley um just went back. I believe it was the church she went to in middle school and that's where all of this plays into the big picture. That's where she met Ryan von Cannon's wife, brittany, and a group of ladies that really come alongside of her um were really instrumental in her faith and pushing her more towards hey, you need to seek biblical wisdom and counseling before you just let this marriage go.
Speaker 3:So we were at that church for a while and then things kind of went a little south church-wise. So we all left. Everybody kind of went to their own churches. We tried a couple out and then covid hit and no churches are meeting. So we went to the only church we could find that was still having services. But ultimately the lord led us all back to west cabarrus. So West Cabarrus Church is where we wound up, and that was our whole group from the original church, because when I came here for the first time in 2021, this was the first place I ever sat under expository teaching. This was the first time I ever heard words like sanctification. This was the first time I ever heard anybody really preaching doctrine and theology. So I went back home and I was like we, we've got to find an expository church and a sound theology like that was that was driving me. And that's when I called ryan and ashley called britney and I was like all, let's go check out West Camaras, and so that's that's where we wound up.
Speaker 1:Man, so you came to that be strong in 2021. Um, because Ryan invited you.
Speaker 3:Yeah. He was like hey, man, you want to go to a men's conference? And I said, no, no, I do not.
Speaker 1:No, Am I going to have to hug other men? Yeah, I said I don't want to go to a men's conference and I said no, no, I'm going to have to hug other men.
Speaker 3:I said, I don't want to sit around a fire and talk about my feelings or none of that. And, uh, he's like no man trust me this. This, these are your people. It was different. These are your people.
Speaker 1:It was different.
Speaker 3:And uh, man, it was. It was the first time that I saw men that I could really relate to and I'm not throwing shade on anybody else or any of my other pastors, but it was like I'm not a dress, slacks, button up, t-shirt kind of guy. I am what I am, you know. And so it was the first time that I sat somewhere and saw somebody that I could identify with, that loved the Lord and was living what they were preaching. Not that the other guys weren't, but it's just I can't identify with that. Dressed slacks, and that's not me, mm-hmm. And then I start hearing words like sanctification. I start hearing Scripture preached in a way that was new to me but it made so much sense. Then the theology that first year that I came. I was looking at the notebook this morning because I still have all the notes from everyone I've ever been to. March of 21 was the life of David. I was reading back through those notes and man, just a challenge.
Speaker 3:And I think the first breakout I sat through was Zach's you're the theologian of your home and so I just I came back from that on fire and I was like, all right, we're going to figure out what this theology thing is. You know who's Spurgeon, what is all this? And started reading and studying. And the week I got back from that conference, ashley was in a really bad car wreck and she broke her sternum Whoa and so for like three weeks she couldn't get up out of a chair and I was like, all right, now it's time to put everything I just learned into practice. You know, serving your little kids at home oh yeah, a baby.
Speaker 3:Four of them so, but you know, a lot of people jumped in and helped in that situation, but it really it's like I came home on fire from that. First, be strong, if all right, I'm gonna serve my wife well. I've just got challenged to to love my wife well and sacrifice and lay down my life. Bam, here it is. Can you do it? You know? So you had to wear it.
Speaker 1:I had to wear it, man, it's been cool it's like you go hear something like that and it challenges you, it encourages you. You're like man, I'm, I'm in, I'm ready for this. I'm gung how you leave excited and all of a sudden you got to wear it. Yeah, you know, it starts whooping your hiney and I think, I think I came home.
Speaker 3:We come home sunday evening and her car wreck was thursday, wow. So busted her eye up, split her sternum.
Speaker 1:Ashley is well one. Maybe around marriage retreat time we'll have y'all on together.
Speaker 3:That'll be cool, that'll go great yeah.
Speaker 1:She's a fire plug man. She's so special because she's that blend of tough, gritty fireball, but sweet, gentle, compassionate, yeah, it's uh. Only the lord, I think, can make that happen in one person, you know, and she reflects that so beautifully. Yeah, I mean, she's everybody loves her.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, it's rare that one person has everybody everybody loves. You know I, I was. We were laughing me a little. We're laughing. The other day. I mean she's, everybody loves her. Oh yeah, it's rare that one person has everybody Everybody loves. You know, I was, we were laughing Me and Little were laughing the other day, not about Ashley or y'all's situation, but we're kind of making a checklist of people that I know hate me.
Speaker 1:I shouldn't probably be talking about this on the NSR, you know. But you know, this was kind of behind and I, I and I remember I've always felt like, and I heard a pastor say this one time and it just affirmed it if everybody likes you, there's a problem, there's something wrong. Yeah, you know, and and uh, but if everybody hates you, there's a problem. You know, like, and so I found like, a good, healthy, my life is making a difference. I'm impacting people. It's going to be 90%, but there's going to be some conflict. But we were making a list of people that either turned on us or used to. You know, we thought they were friends or maybe we messed up, you know whatever. And we were just kind of laughing about it and like man, a name came up and I was like I think that person might, would, would want us dead.
Speaker 1:You know we're laughing, and so it's really rare that you meet somebody but ashley's in that category where I cannot imagine somebody not loving her. You know, yeah, she's just got a gift and it sounds like that's from, that's from the lord, like the way she's just aligned her life with christ but it's funny, I told her before we even moved here.
Speaker 3:I said look, within two years you're gonna be planning and helping with responding to mayor's conference she's like no, no, I won't she's already doing. That's all she's done all week with amy I love it, she was going around the house last night pulling decorations off the shelf. She's like I need to use this for the coop and this for here, and I just died laughing I love it.
Speaker 1:So y'all you came back from be strong. It really impacted you. Uh, then it that started to have an effect on your family and the lord gave you a working trial model with her accident and then. So then you convinced her to come back in october and didn't she say she was hesitant, or was that to come to respond?
Speaker 3:um, probably a little bit of both. I know, when I came home I was just just like, man, this place is awesome, you got to go, and she's like. And then she found out, like well, we didn't really know what the room situation was for the marriage conference and I was like, well, I had to share a room with like five dudes, but yeah, and so we came for the marriage conference and didn't realize that you know, you get your room.
Speaker 3:And then that made it a lot easier. And two, I think at that time there was still a lot of I don't want to say shame or guilt on her part, but it was kind of like, okay, we're going to go to a marriage conference and our marriage is clearly not perfect, but it turned out to be awesome and I don't know that. I think we've missed one marriage conference since 2021. I think we had sick kids one year and couldn't go.
Speaker 1:And then the Lord used that.
Speaker 3:Y'all came back and yeah she came to respond and I came to men's conferences and, um, then in 20, 20 let's see December of 2022 she came to me and was like, hey, I don't know what's going on, but I feel like the Lord has put on my heart that there's we need to make a big life change. There's something we're not doing right. I don't really know what it is. I'm going to be praying about it, I don't know what it is. And then she came up for Respond. No, I take that back. Before Respond, in March, she was like I feel like the Lord's telling us we got to go somewhere, and so we started praying about it. Like, do we need to go on a mission trip? Because I've learned, especially through everything we've been through, when she comes to me and says the Lord's laid something on her heart, you better pay attention. You know she's really sensitive to that.
Speaker 3:And so we didn't know like is it a mission trip, is it the mission field? I really started praying hard like, lord, don't send me to africa. I don't, I don't want to go to africa. There's a whole lot of places.
Speaker 1:Yeah, there's a. Send me. Send me to a really good elk unit in montana. Yeah, I got there colorado, yeah, um.
Speaker 3:But so she came to me before respond and and was like we got to go somewhere, somewhere we're going to be going, somewhere that we need to be that we're not there. And then she came to Respond Conference and came back from there and was like I think it's Andrews and so this is 2023 early. And so we just started praying about it and I freaked out because I was. I was like I've always talked about it, like every time I'd come home from here I'd be like, hey, we just need to sell everything and move up there. And I was half kid and half serious. Well then she called my bluff and was like let's go. And I and panic set in because I was like I don't have a job, I don't, I don't have any of that up there and um, so throughout the the timeline there, without messing it all up, like, we just really started praying like lord if this is where you want us.
Speaker 3:I was praying. She was ready. I mean, as soon as she felt like Andrews, she went through the house and packed up anything that wasn't essential. A year before we moved, most of our stuff was in boxes, ready to go. She was that sure we were going. Wow. But I was praying.
Speaker 3:I just remember praying, lord, if you want me to walk away from a career that I've spent 11 years building, and you want me to move away from my family that I've never been away from, and and at this time, like I had everything that I really had ever wanted had a little bit of land, had a boat, a camper, had a job that you know I could come and I could do what I wanted, as long as I got my work done. You know nobody micromanaging me. And I just remember praying, like, if you want me to walk away from that, I'll do it, I'll do it. But I needed to see a picture of why, like I need some confirmation here of I love Andrews, but I don't see the logic Right, and so that's what I was wrestling with.
Speaker 3:And then we came up in June and we camped out for a week because it was like, all right, if we're going to, if that's where we think we're supposed to live, let's go spend a week and just see the town. The only thing we had seen up to that point was snowbird and, uh well morning fog wasn't even built. Then we just drove by and we're like what's that guy building? Um? So we spent a week camping down on the valley river, hanging out, driving around, locking your keys in your car, locking the keys in the car, and the only person's phone number I had up here was you I had, I had priced a locksmith out of Murphy before I called you and I was like we're about to break a window before we call a
Speaker 3:locksmith. And that's when you were like, hey, bring the kids by camp. And so the kids got to see camp for the first time and ride the slide. And then you also were like, hey, why don't y'all stay for Red Oak? And that was Father's Day Sunday. And I remember calling my dad and he'll tell the story now. But I called my dad and I was like, hey, we're not, we're not gonna make it home for father's day, we're gonna stay up here. And he said he hung the phone up then and cried his eyes out because he knew right.
Speaker 3:Then we were coming here wow, he didn't tell me that until we had already moved up here. So once we left that trip I started putting in applications everywhere. In Andrews there's a big outfit Blaylock and Sons was doing that big job in Robbinsville.
Speaker 3:I called and talked to them personally and the guy was like yeah, man, we're looking for it sounds like we're looking for exactly what you are. Put an application. I did no callback, no text, no email, multiple construction companies, not even a callback. And so then I was like, well, I guess we just we missed this. Like if this is where God wanted us, he'd open a door.
Speaker 3:So we just went into this season of praying and waiting. I mean, I had already told my immediate boss at Blythe this is my last year here. I want you to be prepared for that, because I was the guy nobody thought would ever leave Blythe. I've been there 11 years. I told him I was like I think we're moving and this is probably my last season here, but no doors ever opened. Every door actually closed that we thought was the door to go through. And so we just kept praying and and and doing what we could in the time, um, talking to you know, our pastor, and getting some counseling. It's like, hey, I remember talking to charlie cole, he's got some ties to camp here and I talking to charlie about it. And he's like, hey, I remember talking to charlie cole, he's got some ties to camp here and I talking to charlie about it, and he's like, man, you just he's like you just gotta wait.
Speaker 3:You gotta learn to be content in the day and wait. Um, so that's what we did and uh, I think it was. I think it was October 23. Yeah, October 23 is when we came up and did the slide, because me and Kroc were talking about the slide and I took some vacation time, came up and we re-graded the slide and when we left then I knew I need to work at camp.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you came up and stayed for several days. We were if for people that have been to swo, we have a, we have a 300 and some foot slide. It's not a water slide, it's you ride tubes. It's just a lot of fun. It's one of those activities that anybody can do it and have fun with it. But it was a major dirt moving project for us to get it in and you rolled in and went to work.
Speaker 3:Yeah, we cut some ditches and got it draining. So I left here from that and was like, all right, I feel like I need to be at camp. I feel like I need to be at camp, but it wasn't until I'd have to look and see when I sent you the, the one email. Cause I sent you an email and was like, hey, you might tell me I'm crazy and that's okay too, but I feel like I'm called to be a part of the snowbird and um cause, for like a week I I just couldn't sleep.
Speaker 3:I'd lay in bed every night and the only thing I could think about was the new property at Snowbird.
Speaker 1:I think I've already designed that new property three or four times in my head, and I don't even know what the plan is at this point.
Speaker 3:And that's when I sent you that email. It's like this is what I'm feeling. And you emailed me back and you said, yeah, we got to talk. And so that just started the ball rolling. You introduced me to Muggs and Kroc, I got to know those guys, and then still there was a wide gap there where, like nothing's happening I mean, ashley's ready to put the house for sale. I've already told work like this is my last year. And then I have to go back in and say, hey, actually I'm gonna, I'm gonna stay one more, um, and so we just, the lord, really taught us how to wait patiently in that season.
Speaker 3:And then too I I started reading, like because I had a conversation with john relo at one of the B Strongs, because I knew he had moved before and he had been called places. I was like, hey, man, how do you know when it's time to go, like, how do you go through that process of the Lord's calling me here? Now it's time to go? And that's when he pointed me to Joshua 3. And we talked about Joshua 3. And so I just really tried to put that into practice of follow at a distance, consecrate yourself. And then there came a time where we had to step in the river but and then reading about Abraham, like he rose early, cut wood. So there's always something you can be doing, even when you're waiting. And so that's what we started doing. We sold the camper, we sold the boat that one hurt the worst.
Speaker 3:Started doing a lot of repairs on the house, getting it ready to be sold, and then croc sent me a text. I was like hey, when this is march of 24 I think, yeah, he said, when you're up here for Be Strong, we need to have a conversation. And this whole time I'm thinking well, eventually I'm just going to go work at Snowbird when the expansion starts.
Speaker 3:We had talked and it's like I don't know what that looks like. Is that three years, five years? I don't know. Maybe when that happens there will be a job open up. But then in March, march, crock was like hey, you want? To uh there's a job opened up, or move some pieces and parts around. Yeah, yeah, and I was, and he was like hvac and plumbing I mean I ain't never done hvac or plumbing, you know.
Speaker 3:He said, well, are you willing to learn? I said, yeah, I'll do anything. I'll, I'll try anything. So then a little bit more conversation of you. Know, financially, how do we make this work?
Speaker 3:how do we and the lord just lined it all up to where we we accepted and agreed to the job in april and croc said can you be here before summer? Um, but we talked and I and I told him like I need to finish this season out at Blythe and get this project where I feel like I can walk away, because that was one of the big hold-ups for me. It's 11 years with the same group of guys for the most part, and I started this job. I'm not going to be able to stay here to finish it, but I'm going to get it to a point that when I walk away I don't feel like I've left them hanging. Um, so that was our agreement and uh, we got close. The agreement was to move here in september.
Speaker 3:A lot of holdups selling the house not our house, but the people that were buying our house had a contingency to sell theirs and it took five weeks and we had to extend the contract about three times. And I remember talking to the guy realtors tell you not to. But like, I called him up, was like, let's go get some coffee. And uh, we're having a conversation. I was like, look, man, if your house doesn't go under contract in the next two or three days. I've got to pull out of this contract. I gotta get mine back on the market. Like I'm leaving, I've already put in my notice at work. I've already told everybody at work and and there's people waiting on me, I'm going. Like a day later he got a cash offer on his house sold it, lord, just kept lying, it was it was like he would let us see just enough, but never around the corner it's like all right you
Speaker 3:got it, you got to, you got to do this before you can see that and I think it was really just teaching us patience and trust in the lord and learning. I think that's when we learn to be content with just whatever today is. One day we're moving, the next day we're not. I mean, ashley quit her job a year and a half early, pulled the kids out of school a year and a half early and started homeschooling them because she said, whenever the Lord says to go, we ain't going to have nothing holding us back.
Speaker 1:So here you are, here we are. I can remember being on the other side of the the hvac and plumbing conversation. We're sitting in muggs's office, me, muggs and crock I think hank was probably there and hey, if, if joseph's willing to come do this, it'll get him here and he'll be in position to shift to land development Once we get this thing off the ground and then, simultaneous, what was happening is we had previously we had hired a company that did master development plans where they look at, they, they, they sort of specialize in and the type of development that we need where resorts or amusement parks or schools or where you've got a lot of people flowing on foot and also roads that need to be there. And but they never could figure us out, man, that them guys came in here and they wanted to. They just were. We realized they're used to dealing with high-end clientele, with, you know, really expensive fancy stuff, and they just couldn't wrap their head around that we want to put osb inside of our cabins, yeah, and they couldn't understand that the kind of eighth graders we have here will put a fist or a head through a piece of drywall I don't know the kids they're dealing with must, but you know I
Speaker 1:won't last a week, no, no, and so we shifted around that same time the company that we now are working with. They get us pretty good, pretty good, a lot better, and it's just cool all the the way. Everything had to come together and line up. But the thing that's most encouraging to me is I want people coming here because god's called them here. Anybody that's here could go make more money somewhere else. You know that's across the board. But I remember a friend of ours whose husband was killed. She's an upcoming no sanity story and, lord willing, we'll be in the book next year, the no sanity, the no sanity stories book. I'm not going to say her name here because she uses a pseudonym, because she was serving in a country that had a strong influence of al-qaeda, boka haram you know terrorist groups and and her, her husband, was martyred, he was killed. They were doing humanitarian work, they were aid workers. Because you can't be there as a gospel missionary yeah and so.
Speaker 1:But they were doing gospel. He was doing gospel work. He got killed. And I remember her making a statement in her book and I've referenced this fairly recently on an nsr episode. She said or no, it wasn't in her book. Maybe it was in the book, but before the book came out she had said this to Little. She said people act like it's a sacrifice to give something up to serve the Lord and they use the word sacrifice. But if you do that, for in every other culture in history, if you do something like that for the king or for king and country, it's considered an honor. An honor, yeah and so taking a pay cut, living with less downsizing, choosing to work in a ministry like SWO, where a whole bunch of people are like-minded, and moving the the work forward, yeah, you go make money doing something else, but she ain't gonna have as good a time.
Speaker 1:That's right and you're, and there's something about being with like-minded people. Um, that's very empowering and and, honestly, what you realize is, oh, I'm the one that's being honored here. There's no sacrifice to be here. This is an honor. That's something I constantly, in my own mind, come back to and that's something that comes through in y'all's story is like did we technically, physically sacrifice? And that we gave stuff up to be here? Yes, but the honor of the honor and joy of serving the Lord is, it's just overwhelming.
Speaker 3:It's wild Cause. I mean we had everything All right. So when Ashley came home from that last respond conference when she said, hey, we need to move to Andrews, literally that weekend, I had just finished building an addition onto the house to give Sawyer a bedroom, like we had completely renovated this house the exact way we wanted it Chickens, goats, rabbits, boat I'd always wanted I mean, everything you think of it. If we wanted it, we had it at that point and there was just there was no contentment, there was no I don't know peace about it. Then we get here and it's like we sold all that to get here and the Lord blessed us and really provided a home that allows us to do what we wanted to do, because early on we knew as soon as we get to, Andrews we want to be able to have people over, we want to be able to to interact with people and and just do life with people, because that's just what we wanted to do as far as like entertaining.
Speaker 3:And so now it's like, and I think four nights this week I had intern girls at the house till 12 o'clock, you know, and it's just awesome that we get to do that, and the Lord provided that home for us, but all the stuff we gave up.
Speaker 1:I haven't missed it yet.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, I mean, the boat was the hardest one for me, you use. Hank's boat. Yeah, we're getting there. I just go fishing a river yeah.
Speaker 1:You need a boat fish here, it's true, and Ashley is so gifted at hospitality. Having those girls over and just loving on them and making them feel like a little bit of home away from home yeah, it's pretty cool, it is. It is, yeah, and that girl can cook, mm-hmm. We got to come over and eat with y'all when kilby and greg were here and that was a heck of a meal. That was good. Little makes buttermilk pie and it's famous for it, and that night we had buttermilk cake, which was me.
Speaker 3:It was awesome, I know I ain't had one since, neither oh man.
Speaker 1:well, it's exciting thing about what we're getting ready to do here in the next three to five years. I can't wait. It's going to be awesome, it's going to be wild. We got an excavator rodeo champion on board now.
Speaker 3:First loser.
Speaker 1:And I mean, since you got here, we got a good excavator. Heck, yeah, bought some good equipment.
Speaker 3:Yes, it's going to be fun.
Speaker 1:It's going here. We got a good excavator heck yeah, bought some good equipment. Yes, it'll be fun. It's gonna be a lot of fun. Heck yeah. Cool man. I really appreciate you coming on, appreciate y'all's commitment to this, and I appreciate I love having you on here, because the first email you sent me in 2021, when nsr was a year and a half not even right at a year and a half old, so we were still fairly fairly new and you said, hey, I'm going to have an NSR listener, and that was. That's always encouraging to hear for us, you know.
Speaker 3:So the first person I really met here um was Blair. Oh gosh, and I met Blair at the old man fire. And it was right after I listened to his and shannon's episode, oh and so I was talking to him. I was like hey man, you know, that really impacted me. It meant a lot. And then I wound up telling him my story that night. He looked at me. He said don't ever let him hear that you'll be on there next so blair kind of prophesied it yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he's awesome. Blair's a guy that has continued to be very connected to this ministry, but he's never worked technically at.
Speaker 1:SLO or in the ministry, but man, he's an incredible asset to this ministry and super involved. So, all right, you're talking about selling that boat, yeah, giving that up, being able to fish here and fish rivers, and okay, I I don't want to make a bigger deal out of this than I should. But you killing that big old turkey on our property I think that was a wink from the lord. Oh, because nobody's ever killed a turkey on this property and we've tried. It's not because we hadn't tried and it's not because we're like you're not allowed to hunt like it just hadn't happened.
Speaker 1:like I killed one just off on a neighboring piece, tucker killed one over on collet creek but you killed. I mean the way that all went down in my mind that was the Lord, that was just a cool gift from the Lord, that was awesome. And I always, if I kill a buck or I kill a, you know if I kill something, and only hunters can appreciate this, but if I have a successful hunt, I always know that was the Lord gifting me with that.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And it was cool. My brain went when you're talking about you know, because I know you had not just your boat and your camper, you also had hunting ground around your house, across the road. You've told me about the, the land y'all could hunt over there to come here and, literally in the flow of your work day, end up in that situation turkeys.
Speaker 3:That's pretty cool it was yeah, because usually when I try to do something like that, it don't work out like if I try to sneak up on something. Yeah, I shoot him from a long way off. Yeah, but I had hank and hank said just get behind me and just stay right behind me. He can call a bird. And then he said put your gun up on my shoulder, I don't care if I go deaf. And then he plugged his ear, put his finger right in his ear and he slides.
Speaker 1:I've done that with him before he slides it up, if you can shoot him cool because for people that know how a turkey hunt calling is what people love about turkey yes, I could kill turkeys by bushwhacking them, where you just hide and wait till you see one and shoot it yeah, that don't really count to. To turkey hunters right to me it does, you know, but to turkey hunters, that's not turkey. You got to call them in. Well, I'm terrible at it, I'm just not good, but it's hard up here.
Speaker 3:I mean, I didn't, it's different here I wore the soles of these boots out already this year trying to kill one.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm not very good at it and, uh, because I'm not very good at it, I haven't done it a lot, because I just kind of would not have a lot of success and then kind of lose interest, not like I quit or I give up, just kind of lose interest. It's getting burned out on it. Yeah, I'd be like I'm going to do something else, yeah, but um, for that happened, that's pretty cool. It was pretty cool. I was pretty excited. Hank sent me the picture. That's a big turkey. It was, uh, just over 20 pounds. Yeah, it was a good bird. And he sent me a picture. You holding it yesterday, yeah, and you're in your normal work. I'm just standing over there behind the barn and I was like what?
Speaker 3:so there's one picture that's got the buses in the background. That's the one he sent me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I, yeah.
Speaker 3:I can see the buses behind the road Because I was wearing my Snowbird shirt and then Hank was like here, put this on, he had an extra shirt. It was awesome, man.
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