No Sanity Required
No Sanity Required is a weekly podcast hosted by Brody Holloway and Snowbird Outfitters. Each week, we engage culture and personal stories with a Gospel-driven perspective. Our mission is to equip the Church to pierce the darkness with the light of Christ by sharing the vision, ideas, and passions God has used to carry us through 26 years of student ministry. Find more content at swoutfitters.com.
No Sanity Required
Behind the Scenes of Be Strong | Conversation with Rob, Spencer, and Brody
In this episode, Rob, Spencer, and Brody recap the Be Strong Men’s Conference from this past weekend, sharing funny stories and impactful moments. They dive into highlights like Rob’s new workshop and meaningful conversations with attendees about faith, struggles, and growth. Spencer and Rob reflect on the connections they made with some men, while Brody discusses the weekend’s theme — staying in the light and finishing strong. Tune in for a blend of humor, honesty, and inspiration!
Unpacking What it Looks Like to Abide in God’s Word
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Okay, so in this episode I got Spencer and Rob on here today and y'all I'm going to go ahead and apologize for where this conversation might go. We're going to have a follow-up to Be Strong. We're going to talk about Be Strong, but just welcome to no Sanity Required.
Speaker 2:Welcome to no Sanity Required from the Ministry of Snowbird Wilderness Outfitters. A podcast about the Bible, culture and stories from around the globe.
Speaker 1:All right, so we're going to start off with a couple funny stories, and the reason I want to do this is just to get things going because I don't really know where to start. We don't have a notes or an outline. We just came out of our Be Strong weekend notes or an outline. We just came out of our be strong weekend and on friday night I told a story that created so much conversation around uh, so I think we should probably tell that story now with y'all's, with y'all's input, because you were both there when that happened.
Speaker 1:I told a story about pooping my pants and I told it to 600 men on Friday night and it dawned on me and it was in a sermon illustration and it dawned on me that, men, we are not much different than middle school boys and that pooping your pants is always funny. But then it also dawned on me there are men here that have never been here. 25% of people there have never been here. I wonder what they were thinking, but it turns out afterwards I was at one of the campfires around camp and for 20 minutes guys were telling poop their pants stories you're not alone.
Speaker 3:I was out, you know in the uh and the main, you know in the room uh and the main, you know in the room with everybody and it was very well received.
Speaker 1:Okay, good.
Speaker 3:You know there's always going to be some guys that are just waiting to be offended, but the vast majority. It was like okay, good. Yeah, you're amongst friends.
Speaker 1:Well, I was talking to one guy afterwards because the whole point I was trying to make is, when you're laying there, when you're in your own field, then you're like, how did I get here? I just need, like, I need some cleansing because I was talking about okay. So here's the story. We're in a meeting, the three of us, I don't remember. Okay, where were you sitting in relation to me?
Speaker 4:across the room.
Speaker 1:You were across the room for me, but you were beside me I was in the danger zone, okay, yeah and to set this what, what? What kind of meeting was this?
Speaker 4:uh, so this is our, this is our l10 meeting, so it's basically it's the executive team, it's all the directors, and we meet together periodically to kind of discuss camp business finances, vision for the future, marketing, all that sort of stuff Pretty important. Serious meeting yeah serious meeting.
Speaker 3:At times, at times.
Speaker 1:But what happened was I had expelled gas and it was loud, and so the three of us giggled. It's funny, because that's funny. I had expelled gas and it was loud, and so the three of us giggled. It's funny.
Speaker 3:Because that's funny. Every time somebody does it it's funny. And somebody else in the meeting was trying to. I mean, just didn't break, Didn't break, Just trying to stay the course, which just makes it funnier. It makes it even funnier.
Speaker 1:If everybody would have laughed, it'd probably been over yeah yeah, but then that was so. Then I thought, well, I just farted and everybody laughed I bet, if I fart again, everybody will laugh again and then I was. You know, you kind of, you kind of are at the end of yourself, so you're straining you know reaching deep yep, and so I get up.
Speaker 1:I'm sitting on my haunches is that what you call that when you're squatting? Sure, and I'm up in the chair. I mean, I'm almost a 50 year old man. When this happens, I'm probably 46 and I'm squishing, squeezing, straining and next thing you know, there is literally from the back of the knees to the shoulder blades. It was explosive.
Speaker 4:From across the room. All we heard was oh, oh, yep.
Speaker 1:And I believe Rob ran for you couldn't run for the door.
Speaker 3:No, you were between me and the door. You couldn't run for the door.
Speaker 4:No, you were between me and the door and it yeah, I, I started hurtling benches. It's the fastest I've seen you move in a while.
Speaker 1:I think at one point you were up there was a stack of chairs, because there's a high window in that room and there's a stack of chairs. You're up, like like you're gonna go out that window, which there's nowhere to go, even if you could have gotten out, kind of like people jumping out of burning buildings, like there's a better option than to stay here.
Speaker 3:If I'm going to go, I choose this way.
Speaker 1:So then the story is funny because of a number of reasons. There's layers to the humor, but one of them was little and Tucker. Tucker was probably 16 at the time. 16, yeah, I'd say, and he's downstairs, let's see. Yeah, well, you know what Tucker was? I think a freshman, because Kilby, that's what they were downstairs doing.
Speaker 4:They were working on a float.
Speaker 1:They were working on a float for the homecoming thing Yep, so she's downstairs and they're down there tucking Little working on the float. The homecoming thing? Yep, so she's downstairs and they're down. They're down, they're tucking little working on the float. Because we're in the upstairs of the barn at camp and they hear the commotion because to hear little tell it, it's like so loud because you've got roaring, laughter, screaming, people screaming y'all. I. I cannot be clear enough that I had made a mess, like a baby makes when they have one of those blow-up diapers.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and it wasn't just that you did it and I ran away from knowing that it was inside your pants. You dropped your pants to show us what had happened. That's when I yeah, survival instincts took over.
Speaker 1:Yes, okay, so, understandably so. So then Little comes up to the door and by this point I've stripped down, uh, but I'm like literally covered in poop and little comes to the door and peeks her head and says what are you doing? And I went, I said I pooped my pants and little and tuck seemed like oh, unmoved it just turns. That makes sense. They just turn around and left like completely unamused but also unsurprised.
Speaker 3:As if we were laughing at you sending an email. I sent an email.
Speaker 1:Oh, no wonder everybody's laughing. So the point was then I had nowhere to go, no clothes, no clean clothes. So and I, there was this moment where I realized I can't clean myself. This is between my shoulder blades, right below my shoulder blades, in the middle of my back. So I have to go lay in the creek and scrub my back on gravel and grit and rocks, and so then I drive home and do the and get, do the best I can. So anyway, tell that story. We're talking about cleansing and how you can't clean yourself. There's areas of your life you can't reach, you know. So you, you realize, sometimes illustrations over illustrate and and it's hard to rein it back in. But then, but I seriously had dudes come up to me and say, oh no, I'll never forget that, yeah, it's first john 1 9, that, uh, he's faithful, just to cleanse us was the point I was making.
Speaker 4:So anyway, several guys mentioned it in the surveys, just like how much that illustration stuck in their minds.
Speaker 1:Yeah, crazy so. So the summary here for be strong is grown men at any age are not so different from 14 year old mungus boys. What was the funny thing? We're telling that I brought up that spencer did the bathroom thing yes, yes yeah, all right so okay. So the reason we're we're starting this by talking about this is before we started recording. We're sitting around talking. Spencer has one of the funniest stories. It kind of I would say it's in this genre of story that I've ever heard.
Speaker 4:We can we can keep names anonymous other than spencer davis okay, uh, so we in the if you've ever been to camp we're in the metal building camp and there's only one men's bathroom, one women's bathroom, and in the men's bathroom there's only one stall. And so I was talking to Rob outside the bathroom and I had to go in there and use the bathroom stall. And so I walked in. We're just kind of talking and he's walking in behind me and I open up the bathroom stall and somebody had absolutely destroyed it. I mean, just, it was a mess, it was terrible. Like you couldn't go to the bathroom in there. It was just it's so bad. And so I was so mad because I knew exactly who it was that had done it. And I was like dadgum and I and I'm, you know, just venting to rob about this person who had just blown up the bathroom stall. So I was like dad gum, it was after work, so there's not, I mean, there's nobody in the metal building at all. And, uh, so I'm like, hey, so we're continuing our conversation. I was like I'm just gonna go in the girls bathroom, come on.
Speaker 4:And so we turned the corner and I just kind of, you know, there's nobody in the in the room, there's no girls in there or whatever. I just open the girls' bathroom door slightly and say you know, are there any girls in here, any girls in here? I'm coming in? No response, no response at all. And so I didn't know. So I walk into the middle stall, right, so there's three stalls. I walk into the middle stall and shut the door.
Speaker 4:Well, I didn't know, in that girl's bathroom the the like the walls don't come all the way down to the floor. They're very high, like waist high. They're unusually high, way higher than the men's bathroom. But you know, I've never been in that women's bathroom, whatever. And so I walk in and I'm still kind of mad at the other guy. I'm like, come, I can't believe you left that bathroom like that. And so I've already done the girl check, like no girls in here. And I'll look over and there's shoes next to me and in the stall next to me and I thought how in the world did rob get in here so fast? He was behind me and I leaned underneath and said rob, is that you? And the kitchen lady said no, and I went oh, my gosh, well, well, by that time I'm committed.
Speaker 1:I'm already in it side by side, taking a tandem dump.
Speaker 4:So I saw her that night and I was like hey, real sorry about earlier and she's like it's all right, I got sons.
Speaker 2:And I was like.
Speaker 4:I did yell, though I did say are there any girls in there?
Speaker 1:Oh man, I mean to this day, I'll occasionally see that person.
Speaker 4:Oh yeah.
Speaker 1:And I just start giggling.
Speaker 4:Oh yeah.
Speaker 1:Oh man, it is funny how, when you get a group of guys together around the fire, remember, uh, somebody. Recently there was a group of men at camp. Group leaders were sitting around a fire and the one guy said is all y'all talk about is poop. I think you talked to both of y'all about this separately.
Speaker 4:He did.
Speaker 1:But it is common that that's where the conversation turns, including when I had Scott Bryson on here, my cousin who was Secret Service. I went straight to getting him to tell a couple of funny poop stories from when he was in the service. You know, when Gar Bozeman's got some hilarious in-combat poop stories, one where he's outside of a Bradley or a Humvee or something and he's squatted down by the wheel while pooping and he realizes bullets are whizzing and the guys are like, hey, man, I think they're shooting at you. He's dropped trial, he's out there on the side of a hill in Afghanistan and they're cracking off rounds. So the Be Strong event. I wanted to just highlight it and kind of get y'all's thoughts just kind of feedback just within this group and then let everyone else kind of listen in to that conversation. I thought it was. If I'm not mistaken, it ended up being the biggest one we've ever done.
Speaker 4:Yeah, biggest one, yet it's crazy.
Speaker 1:And I think that's between. So it was the most registrations. I also think it was the most walk-ins, like from our church, local guys, I think that, like how full the room was, reminded me of summer camp or Fuller.
Speaker 4:Yeah, went all the way to the back.
Speaker 1:We tried something new this year. We did so the format for Be Strong and I know a lot of our listeners were in attendance. But for folks that weren't, or if you've been to a Be Strong in the past, or if you've never been to one, Be Strong is what we call our men's conferences. We do two of them a year and we always do a series of breakout sessions. Breakout sessions are different from main sessions ser two of them a year and we always do a series of breakout sessions. Breakout sessions are different from main sessions sermons, worship services they're optional. We run those throughout the afternoon. Guys can go attend them and they typically have to do with family stuff, marriage stuff, just manhood stuff.
Speaker 1:Spiritual disciplines We've done breakouts on everything from having an effective quiet time to how you lead, manage your household. We've done breakouts on blended families, discipline like not not spiritual disciplines, but how do you handle discipline of your children. And we tried something new this year which was running parallel to the breakout sessions. In the afternoon rob did a work. We call it a workshop. Uh, I'd like maybe talk a little bit about that. Just what your feedback? The feedback I got was great. I talked to two guys that sat through it. I didn't make it over there. I had planned on going, and then I got interviewed by the french foreign legion. Uh, there's a guy that showed up at camp we can get into that too.
Speaker 1:There's. And then I got interviewed by the French Foreign Legion. There's a guy that showed up at camp. We can get into that too. There's a guy that showed up at camp that writes for a Paris-based publication. That's something like the New York Times. We didn't know why he was here, but he came as an attendee and he interviewed me on our view of masculinity.
Speaker 3:Oh, yeah, very interesting guy.
Speaker 1:Super interesting guy. He's African, he's from cameroon but grew up in paris, moved to new york. He's based out of manhattan but it's a paris publication so he had been I think he'd been on the west coast interviewing some folks out there and kind of the la culture. So I don't know, we'll see we'll see.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I need to follow up an email, make sure he sends us the article that he writes. Yeah, he said he's going to write an article just on us Like it's part of a series.
Speaker 1:I told Rob there's nothing to hide, nothing. We don't say on this platform. But my concern would be more. If he ends up trying to twist things, takes it out of context.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and I tried to dig into that a little bit. It was a little evasive, it felt like my concern would be more if he ends up trying to twist things. Yeah, takes it out of context. Yeah, and I tried to dig into that a little bit. It was a little evasive, it felt like. But he also, you know, after I realized what he was doing, you know, I was aware where he was sitting and he seemed to be nodding his head in agreement, especially during Zach's breakout on masculinity, which was very clear, very well done, and he seemed to really enjoy that, yeah, but yeah, so the workshop you know that was kind of born out of had done a breakout.
Speaker 3:So you know it's supposed to be about a 30 minute max session for the college retreat on Bible study, attempting to maybe go a couple steps further than what we've done in the past with how to study the Bible breakout which Spencer's done a few different versions of. It's always my favorite breakout. It's very clear, very practical and helpful. So just trying to think, okay, you know, maybe going a little bit more into interpretation of the text. And so anyway, I ended up not getting very far in that breakout. You know, spent more time on the beginning and but it was, it was good and it got good feedback. And then we did a, an episode talking about it and your idea was, you know, maybe for the adult retreats we'd have time to, where it wouldn't just be a session but be more like a classroom where there could be discussion, um, so yeah, that's what we shot for.
Speaker 3:we had about I think it was between 15 and 20 guys came, total that's awesome a couple of them came in a little bit later, you know, with there's wreck going on and other breakouts, and yeah, I really enjoyed it because the way that I formatted it was, you know, I did like an intro to it was about 25, 30 minutes long, and then I just picked a passage.
Speaker 3:I took Philippians 2 that we were going to read and then discuss and with based on the principles that I introduced to them. And so you know, we had that first time of study and I asked a question. Coming out of that it was no one was really saying anything, and then one person did and then it just opened the floodgates and there was so much discussion so we did that for about a half hour. And then I did another, uh, half hour of you know a little bit, um, you know, some more principles, introducing those of really trying to get the meaning of the text, um, and so we had another round and that went really well. The discussion was great, yeah, and I had a number of guys that night the next day come up to me and really appreciated it. I think it was a little bit mixed. I think there were some guys that felt overwhelmed and freaking from a fire hydrant kind of feeling. Um, so it's, you know good feedback.
Speaker 3:You know if we do it again that's good maybe adjust, but but overall I thought it was uh, really well received. I was super encouraged. There was guys in there that based on their answers I thought one guy might be a pastor. But then he came up and talked to me that night and he's a believer, loves the Lord, not in ministry, but just was articulating that he's been wanting something like this, that knew that his study could go deeper but just didn't really know the steps to take. And so he was saying that and I was like man, I thought you were, I thought you might be, you know somebody who preaches for a living. So that was just super encouraging hearing from those guys.
Speaker 1:I'd talked to one guy at supper. I sat with him and he was. He was very encouraged by it and I'd asked him how many people were there and he said he said it wasn't a real big crowd. I said, well, we weren't expecting, nor did we want a real big crowd. You know the the format of it. It's almost better if it's because it's like a lab. We were hoping it'd be 20-ish or less and he said I think it was close to 20 probably, but we didn't record that, did we?
Speaker 3:I think we just recorded it.
Speaker 1:We did record the audio, your audio. I don't know if we'll put that on the SWO podcast, the other podcast that SWO produces, the teaching podcast, but this is a lot of the content you and I talked about in a two-part episode here at NSR a couple months back, so right after a college retreat.
Speaker 4:I'll tell you one thing that I you know talking about dumb stories like we had, you know, opening up. One of the things that really attracted me to camp in general was that you know that when I came here, these were guys that were serious about the lord and uh could laugh at normal things like reggie and yes, yes, 100 like reggie.
Speaker 4:So yes, we all right, here's another story. Uh, so we had a at the time camp had a goat named Reggie. When I first came to camp it was 01. It might have been spring of 2000.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think it was it was either fall of 2000 or spring of 01.
Speaker 4:Spring of 01,. I think it was.
Speaker 1:We're building the wreck shed.
Speaker 4:And so when I came up to camp for the first time, you know I was really drawn to it.
Speaker 4:I was a pretty new Christian, and so what I saw was guys that were really serious about their walk with the Lord, like guys that actually studied the Bible in the mornings, guys that actually tried to fight against sin, and I was so attracted to that. Well then this goat comes by, and it's a black goat named Reggie that they kept pinned up at the metal building and there was a bulldog on campus named Leroy, and when I looked up, so we're just hanging out in the gravel outside the middle building, and when I looked up, that dog, leroy, was trying to breed that goat Reggie, and Reggie was kicking it right in the chest and I started dying laughing. And then I was like, whoa, this might not be that kind of crowd, like, and I pulled it back, cause I was like, oh, maybe I shouldn't be laughing at that. And I looked over and everybody exploded laughing at it and I was like, okay, okay, like these, these guys are serious about the Lord and can laugh at normal stuff you know, stuff that's.
Speaker 4:That's funny. You know, obviously you can take that way too far, you can take it over the line, but I heard a lot of guys this weekend just being like I didn't realize how much I needed that. Not only the emphasis on the word, but just hanging out and fellowship and laughing with guys. I probably heard three or four guys say I signed up for this but I didn't realize how much I needed it needed to unwind, unpack the word, but then just laugh with other guys. That was cool.
Speaker 2:And you know I'm the first to raise my hand that you know, I get convicted over where I let my sense of humor go, but I think what you're talking about and hopefully what people feel when they get here, is there's not a facade. I remember the Lord saved me when I was 18.
Speaker 3:Went to a mega church in the area and felt very out of place. But I was so drawn to the preaching and I knew I wanted to be around Christians but it was, you know, definitely not the neighborhood I was living in, like most people that went to that church and I remember feeling out of place, like I went. I went out because all I had was jeans and t-shirts. Surprising, I've gone back to that. Yep, it's a good system but I remember going out and buying, like I bought a sweater vest.
Speaker 4:Yes, sir oh, where's that?
Speaker 3:been. It's probably still in my mom's closet, but but I had, uh, yeah, I was. Just I felt so out of place, felt, you know, like I came in looking scruffy and and just trying to. Everything is brand new, so I'm trying to fit into this world and never really felt like I fit in there socially at all. And then I went to college at.
Speaker 3:Liberty, which I'm very thankful for, but that was I mean as well, and that was during the dress code days where you had to wear a shirt and tie. But I was constantly asking at both places, asking people if they would disciple me, because I knew that was something. Um, and just some guy, most people just turned me down or you know, or they gave me a book to read and I just remember I was seeing like the way that people would act in worship services and then how they would act outside of that and there was such a divide and I remember like I'd come out of a worship service and I just want to talk about the sermon I was you know, everything's new to me and I just loved the.
Speaker 3:Lord and wanted to like talk about it and people like I remember like feeling how uncomfortable people were and you know, it wasn't until like the following year, I ended up on a dorm with Zach and Spencer and, like they, really, I remember when it dawned on me that they had been discipling me because it was just so natural and it was just good relationships and friendships and we joke around. You could joke around and talk about the Lord and it would just flow back and forth, and then I came that first summer 2001 to work at camp and it was the same thing.
Speaker 3:It was like I just remember thinking, yeah, this is real, like you know, because all I'd seen to that point was people who would preach and then disappear and, like you couldn't interact with. I remember I set up a meeting with some of the campus pastors and I walked away feeling like the whole time I talked to them the vibe I was getting is this kid's wasting my time. And it was stuff to me that was important.
Speaker 2:And then I came to camp and it was like man, that's real.
Speaker 3:And initially maybe a little like okay, like recalibrating, because I was trying to suppress sense of humor and what was appropriate. Not that we perfected that, but I enjoy it very much.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:And like I think guys feel that when they come that it's not like there's not a separation of our relationship with the Lord from the rest of our lives, and I think that that is like like that's freeing and refreshing yeah.
Speaker 1:Yes, I think guys, a lot of guys, they do. They get here and they go. Here's an illustration to what you're saying, rob. I grew up playing basketball, loved basketball, loved football. It's the two sports. I played baseball when I was a little boy, you know, but loved those two sports and there was a point where you realize I cannot play in the NBA. That's never going to happen, it's not attainable.
Speaker 1:And even one of my best friends and college teammates was a guy named Jody Chapman and, uh, we call him Chap. I talked to him, he texted me every morning. I got a text from him. This morning I haven't seen him. I see him once a year, maybe at church, when I'm speaking at his church, but he texts about every morning praying for you. Today, pretty cool.
Speaker 1:But he's, you know, he's 6'8", 6'9", played small forward, could shoot the three Phenomenal basketball player. And and he had a tag. He had a personalized tag. You know the license plate where you get your own. It said one day NBA. And I was always like I don't want to ride around. I remember driving his car a couple times, like you know. But he really believed it. You know, he, he and he didn't. He did not make it to the NBA, but he did have. I think he could have.
Speaker 1:Potentially he definitely had an opportunity to play in Europe, but by the end he was getting married. He wanted to settle. He's like I won't be done with that. The point being, when steph curry came along and people, you don't have to be a basketball fan to to get where I'm going with this. So it's cool if you don't understand basketball. Steph curry's an nba star who is the all-time three-point leader in in the nba. So he has hit more three-pointers than anybody else in history and is continuing to build on that record. I doubt it will get broken anytime soon. So he comes along and plays college ball at a little school called Davidson, takes them to the Final Four. He's not a big guy by NBA standards. He's 6'3" 6'4", which by NBA standards is really small. And when he really storms onto the scene in the NBA, he gives high school players something that they can strive towards, because to that point it was LeBron James or Michael Jordan and you're like I can't do that I can't be 6'8" 275.
Speaker 4:And with a 40-inch vertical I can't do that. Yeah, I can't be 6'8" 275.
Speaker 1:And with a 40-inch vertical, I can't do that. I can be 6'3". Work on my fundamental skills, master ball handling and master shooting the ball. Anybody can do that. And so then, all of a sudden, the game of basketball changes to where our kids are playing in a basketball world that's not like the one we played in. Everybody shoots the three, everybody, everybody, everybody has patterned their game after Steph Curry. It's the first, it's the first NBA all-star that's come along that people are going oh, I can do what he does. Now, people can't do as good as him, but it gives you something to strive towards.
Speaker 1:And I think there's a disconnect with most quote unquote professional pastors and ministry leaders, where people are like, yeah, but that's. I said on Friday night to kick it off, I said there's two mistakes I think people make when there's two. There's two lights that people put pastors in. One is yep, you're a professional Christian. I can't, I'll never be able to do what you do, read what you read, study what you study, understand and know what you know. Or they put you in a different category of you're probably a hypocrite because they've seen pastors that were in charge of big ministries come out in the media or the news that they were having an affair or they had stolen money. So people have these two weird categories either unattainable Like I love John MacArthur, but I can't imagine sitting down and hanging out with him and cutting up and telling jokes and doing what we do he feels unattainable. But then there's the guy like Robert Morris, the pastor in Texas that just got arrested because he's messed with a 12-year-old or whatever. And you're like these, weird.
Speaker 1:And so I think when people come to be strong, men come to be strong, and the people that listen to this podcast and that interact with us, they realize these are just dudes. These are just normal dudes. Live normal lives, have normal struggles. We're just before we turn this on, we were having a conversation about we're toying with the idea of getting dumb phones because we get distracted by the internet. I get distracted by hunting videos, gun videos, fitness videos, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah and political video. You know like I need to remove some distractions and start carrying a book around so that when I've got an extra 10 minutes I'll open up a paperback, even if it's a fiction. You know, yeah, we struggle with the same thing everybody else struggles with.
Speaker 1:That's right, and I think that comes through at Be Strong and that's what goes along with what y'all are both saying. I'd like to have, maybe talk. Let's each share anonymously one or two interactions you had with men that I think I'd like to kind of share some examples of interactions we had just where guys are at, where guys were struggling coming in this weekend. Is there a conversation or a situation that stood out to either one of y'all with somebody you interacted with? Maybe somebody you already knew, maybe somebody you'd never met?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, the ones that are fresh on my mind. Well, one.
Speaker 3:You directed somebody to come talk to me. He was sharing, you know, to come talk to me. He was sharing, you know, and he's a granddad, I believe. Yeah, his granddad, you know started sharing stuff that happened to him, you know, when he was a kid, that I could relate to. You know some abuse from his past and you know, an older man had taken advantage of him and you know an older man had taken advantage of him and you know super painful and raw still, you know.
Speaker 2:And just getting to listen to his story and you know the things that.
Speaker 3:I had to share with him that have been really helpful for me, just in my relationship with the Lord and the healing and where you know, for me it's only when I have opportunity to minister to somebody in a similar situation that I really think about it. You know, and a lot of times I tell people, man for me. Now I'll get emotional talking about it, but only in so much as, like when I'm fresh, remember God's grace over that situation more than like any pain or or, you know, hurt from that I often say it's more like I'm watching a movie when I'm remembering, it's like something that I remember, but I'm so disconnected from it and, um, as far as like how it has affected me.
Speaker 3:Um, and so just getting to share that with him and hear his story and that's what most of it was was just man, he just needed somebody to talk to that he would know. Like there's no judgment here. There's no like I'm gonna start looking at you differently, um, you know, and so that that's always you know an honor to be in a conversation like that, that somebody would trust you
Speaker 1:you know, and so that that was one that I believe he said uh, when he came and talked to me, what triggered that was the episode, the podcast episode from a couple weeks ago, where we talked about a guy who was a predator. And when he came to me he had texted me and said hey, when I'm there at Be Strong, I talked to you for a few minutes about that episode of NSR. And when we started talking he said the only other person that knows this is my wife, which praise the Lord. And I told him only other person that knows this is my wife, which praise the lord. And I told him man, I'm glad you shared this with your wife, yeah, at some point. So that's a big. I mean, you're talking about a guy that has been carrying something for over 40 years and he's now brought it into the light with a brother yeah, and and I'm I'm sure he'll listen to this one, you know
Speaker 1:and I think, if any, it has changed the way I looked at him, but only for the positive, like yeah, you respect that a lot and even just hearing how god's grace in his life you know is awesome yeah, and I would just say, because he will listen to this and he knows who he is and just know, uh, we as brothers are praying for you and we're thankful for you and we're proud of you for taking that step. Satan wants to keep stuff in the dark, man. He wants to keep it in the dark and when you bring it into the light, light and darkness have no fellowship. That's part of the text I spoke Friday night. So, anyway, we're proud of you and thankful for you, and thankful that you would let us share in that part of your journey Any that stood out for you, and thankful that you would let us share in that part of your journey.
Speaker 4:Any that stood out for you, Spence yeah, I had one conversation with a guy that I love a lot. He's been coming around for a long time. He's a brother and he's been faithful and really seeking the Lord for a long time and I've got a lot of appreciation for him and he'll listen to this too.
Speaker 4:Uh, and he'll listen to this too. Um, and you know, when he came, he kinda he kinda fallen into the same ruts. He'd been in for a long time and, to be honest, he's been struggling with the same stuff for about six years or so and we've had similar conversations the last six times he's come up. And you know, uh, he knows he knows this I was aggressive with him. You know I was as aggressive with him as I've been with with any other guy and one.
Speaker 4:One of the issues that he's struggling with is is, uh, looking at porn on his phone. And you know, I, I, I had some solutions kind of like hey man, have you tried ABCDE? And you know he kind of came back with well, here's some hurdles, here's why I can't walk in victory to that. You know I need my phone for work. I, you know I got the apps on it to connect to. You know, jobs I've got to get done and things like that. And that's where, you know, I kind of got aggressive with him. I was like I was like great, then you shouldn't come back Like this, this thing is owning you and your every solution I bring, you're bringing um, you're bringing hurdles to it and if you want out of this, the Lord's mercies are new every morning and your life can be a hundred percent different by nightfall tonight, like if you're not happy with your job, the place you live, the habits. You have changed them.
Speaker 4:Like you, you have power to change what's in your pocket that's dominating you know, like and um, yeah, he knows if he's listening to this, you know I was hard on you, uh, and he, he's a brother, we've built that equity over years of relationship.
Speaker 4:And to his credit, man, he, he comes back the next day and it's like hey, man, are you right, I called my boss on a Saturday. He's like I called my boss and said, hey, I'm not going to have my phone anymore, so whatever we need to do. And his boss was like cool. And so you know, to me, first off, credit to the Lord for doing that work in this guy's heart, to where he was open enough to share that struggle again, because it'd be easy to come year six and be like, oh, we're good, you know some struggles, you know, but just keep it real vague. But like, praise the Lord that he caused this guy to be open again, cause that's where a lot of us are like all right, I've confessed this in the past, you know. I'll just say generally, I'm doing all right you know, but the Lord caused him to be open.
Speaker 4:And then, uh for him, for him not to push back strength against strength, cause I did come at him pretty hard but he went back and kind of humbled himself and like, prayed through it and took action and actually got over a lot of those hurdles that he'd been putting in his own way for a long time and told his boss, hey, I'm not happy and maybe to the risk of his job, I'm not carrying a phone, I'm not going to do it because of my relationship with the Lord. And I'm like, yeah, that guy is a guy who is struggling to try to be like Jesus and to me like that was a big success story and you know, you know who you are. If you're listening to this man, I love you, I'm proud of you for that for sure, because you know that really was job on the line, potential things, but you know, in that moment, saying faithfulness is more important than my job, I'm like, heck, yeah.
Speaker 1:Man, that's encouraging. Yeah, yes, I had a guy. I had multiple conversations this weekend with guys that are struggling in their marriage. I can think of four, three or four, I think four. I can think of four one-on-one conversations I had with guys that are struggling in their marriage and one of the guys I already knew two of the guys I had never met and one of them I had met a few years ago. He came to be strong Just realizing in a crowd that big, there's a whole lot of unhealthy marriages represented in the room and I think for those brothers, hopefully they had some good accountability interaction.
Speaker 1:You know, one of the things I counseled with each of those guys was hey, man, you can only control what you can control. Your wife may be so frustrated with you now, or y'all may be so at odds that this is just where you're at, but you need to embrace the responsibility that God's called a man to embrace. So that was just some cool conversations like that. But I had one conversation that stood out to me. A guy walks up to me, I'm talking to Lailie. My 19-year old daughter had swung by. This was right before supper on Saturday evening and I'm out in front of the coop and she'd swung by camp. She'd come in from school and I didn't know she was coming in. So I was real excited. I saw her get out of the car and I went, went over there and you know, was talking to her and I realized a guy's waiting to talk to me. I turn around to walk away from Laylee and this guy is standing there and and and I said, hey, man, you never know, am I supposed to know this person? A lot of times I feel like I should know this person, but maybe I don't, maybe I should, maybe I shouldn't, I don't know. And you don't want people to feel like if you should know them, you don't want to. It's just hard. But we've learned. You don't bluff, don't act like you know somebody if you don't.
Speaker 1:So I just said you were speaking and I won't say the place, but it was for a denominational event. It was, I think, about a dozen or so churches maybe 18 churches at a conference center several years ago in another state doing a session on man. It was an event like Be Strong kind of biblical masculinity and what it was one of the churches. An event like Be Strong kind of biblical masculinity and what it was one of the churches has come to Be Strong several times and so they brought us into their denominational regional gathering or whatever. So it was like a Friday night and a Saturday event. And he said he said my wife made me go to that and she had grown up coming to SWO and said I think if you'll go to that and we we she had grown up coming to SWO and said I think if you'll go to this, I saw where this guy from SWO is, from Snowbirds can be speaking.
Speaker 1:I think you'll connect with him, you can listen this guy, you'll enjoy it. It's not gonna be weird, it's not gonna be awkward, it'll be very easy for you to listen to. This guy works in construction, in the construction field. Non-college educated but but sharp dude, very professional, makes a good living in the construction world working with general contractors. So a dude.
Speaker 1:You know, I think a lot of men are scared. A lot of dudes are scared to come to Be Strong because they're like, is this going to be? Like we got to hug each other and it's going to be super emotional and it's just, it's none of those things. It each other and it's going to be super emotional and and it's just, it's none of those things, just it's just facts, you know. So he said. He said I came to this thing just because my wife wanted me to. And he said it changed my life, changed my marriage, changed my view of work, parenting, being a dad. So he's a dad to some small kids, he's got young kids and he said that was I think it was like three, three years ago or four, three, four years ago. He said it literally changed my life and so he's been back to be strong a couple times. He's been to two or three be strongs.
Speaker 1:Him and his wife have been to the marriage retreat and but he just briefly shared and I said man, I'd like to hear more. Are you going to go in and eat supper? So we just went in and sat down and ate, which is another thing that I think is cool about SWO is everybody here is accessible to everybody. So I got to sit down and have a meal with the guy and hear just what God's done in his life. There's no real struggles I mean the struggles that we all have. But he wasn't like his marriage is in crisis, his kid's turning away, he's got kids like six, four and two or something like that, and him and his wife are doing pretty well and works good and he's praying about does the Lord want me to go and to be more involved in ministry?
Speaker 1:And we talked about lay leading. You know, as a layman in the church, it was so encouraging. But this guy said, yeah, I didn't care about the things of God, I was just kind of like going to church, I come to this men's event. It changed my life and I said who'd you go there with? He said nobody. I didn't know a single person. I went to appease my wife sat through those sessions and it changed my life. So that was very encouraging.
Speaker 1:Yeah, a guy's name is Sean. Shout out, sean, I Appreciate you. You blessed me a lot. I don't know if you realize you were the blessing in that conversation. I was the one that received the blessing. So thanks for sharing that. Yeah, but a lot of good conversations, a lot of hard conversations, for sure, for sure. A lot of cool networking. There's a guy named Brian.
Speaker 1:Brian and his wife came to a marriage retreat, marriage conference back in October. I met them there Me and Little sat across from them at supper and Brian and his wife, whitney are from Mount Airy, north Carolina, and I'd made an Andy Griffith reference marriage retreat and they said, hey, we're from Mayberry, that's where Andy Griffith, that's where he was from. And uh, we started talking. So I ended up and they, they just come to snowbird on the recommendation of a friend. They wanted to get away, go do something marriage related. They've been married 20 some years. Let's go somewhere close by. We don't have to go too far from home. They came, they didn't. They've never been to snowbird, didn't know anything about us. Lord really used that weekend. I I ended up on the phone with Brian the next week.
Speaker 1:He was serving as a. He had served as a children's pastor and had been in another role at his, at their home church, but really felt had felt called to pastor. And so we ended up on the phone the next week for about an hour one night and he, he's looking at church planting. So I introduced him by text to Mike Talley, one of our board members, who's a church planter in Denver, colorado, and John G Tate. John G is in Virginia and has planted multiple churches out of the original plant Bedrock Church and so networking guys. Well then, I've kept up with him through the last six months and he's there in the process with NAM, north American Mission Board to plant, with Send NC to plant within the state of North Carolina. He wants to hometown plant, that's cool.
Speaker 1:In Surry County, north Carolina. Well, timmy Burnett is a friend of ours, a pastor brother, who felt really called to. He's a bivocational pastor who planted in his hometown which is just north of Asheville on the Bunkum bunk of Madison County line, to plant in the mountains among mountain people. You know Asheville church planting has been huge in Asheville in the last 25 years but it's all been sort of targeting the young, the REI crowd and Timmy was like I want to plant among mountain people. There's still small town and small community feel in these mountain communities around Asheville. So he planted close to home. So Brian comes up to me I said hey, there's a guy here you got to meet and I see Timmy back there. Did you see? Timmy had a blaze orange hat on. He had a soda snowbird patch on it.
Speaker 2:It was awesome.
Speaker 1:I was like, hey, we need some of those hats so Timmy and Brian connect. And now they're connected, both North Carolina church planters. That's cool. Timmy will be able to kind of mentor and help Brian. So there's a cool networking story that came out of Be Strong. That's cool.
Speaker 4:It was cool seeing guys like Timmy, who are bivocational or full-time pastors that were here at Be Strong up until late Saturday night, and then a lot of these guys were like hey, man, I got to preach, I'm out of here. I got to preach on Sunday morning but they came and they're with their guys and then took off late Saturday or early Sunday to go preach in their churches. That was a cool little subplot.
Speaker 1:Jeff Martin did that. Yeah, jeff Martin did it. It was in Johnson City and I saw him Saturday afternoon late. He said man, I hate it, I got to preach both services tomorrow. Love pastors like that. It was cool. We had a lot of guys here with their sons. Had a lot of guys here that served in years past on SWO staff. Guys served 15, 20 years ago. They're here attending Be Strong. We got Sovereign Hope churches here and that lead pastor, adam Benson, is a close friend of all of ours, a guy we have a lot of respect for. He planted and that church is growing and a lot of their men were here and a lot of new faces, a lot of new churches, new faces, new people.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I was really surprised when we asked them to raise their hand if this was their first time. There was a ton of guys. It felt like just from looking out on the stage, it felt like over half the crowd, but at school it feels like the opposite. But just because there's so many, guys that have been coming for years, that just become good friends and they just keep bringing folks yeah.
Speaker 1:The theme, the teaching focus, and I, they just keep bringing folks. Yeah, the, uh, the theme, the teaching focus. And and I would just again encourage y'all to go listen to all the sessions we'll have them on the the snowbird outfitters podcast. Um, our, our other podcast, which covers all of our teaching content. Uh, the theme was, uh, life of the apostles, or teaching content. The theme was Life of the Apostles, or just the Apostles. The theme was the Apostles, and Friday night I opened up with 1 John, 1, 5 through 10, which is that contrast of light and darkness can't have fellowship.
Speaker 1:So as believers we've got to work and fight to stay in the light and the way we do that is through confession. But if we'll live as men of confession, both in confessing our sins and confession of the Lordship of Christ, and that through that there's a constant cleansing. And we looked at sanctification, felt like that was a need for men, like the guy you're talking about, spence, that feel like man. I keep going back to the same thing. It's the Roman seven struggle. I keep going back to the same thing and it's like we'll just keep confessing and just keep receiving the cleansing power of the blood of Jesus.
Speaker 1:And then Saturday morning looked at those last words of Paul in second Timothy, chapter four, where he's writing that last letter, and we've chopped that up a hundred different ways over the years. It'd be strong because it's that kind of passage. There's so many angles you can take on it. There's so many like you can focus in on one of the names in the passage or one of the phrases in the passage and, um, I looked back as I was preparing that message. I looked back and I had preached three different sermons, all different there. Yeah, on that, that text. But one of the things I really wanted to highlight was that moment where he asks for John Mark because he's useful for ministry, and that was a big redemptive moment because that was a guy that abandoned Paul and then Paul wouldn't allow him to serve alongside of him for a long season. And then Saturday night, spence, you brought a message on Paul's last interaction with the leaders of the church at Ephesus on the beach. Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 4:Yeah, and that one man that affected me a lot personally, because it was, you know that centering around it's Acts 20, and in verse 24, he says something like I don't consider my life of any value. If only I can finish the course.
Speaker 4:And to me it was just man. It was so impactful all week thinking about I don't count my life, my comfort, money, of any value. The only value is sharpened down to finishing the course is proclaiming the gospel, and it was super challenging for me personally. And then, you know, just to think, one of the sub points of the sermon was talking about how much Paul had accomplished in such a short time and it was like okay, he wrote Romans in this three month span and then he basically evangelized all of Asia within this two year span and it made me just sit and think okay, three months ago, what am I doing?
Speaker 4:It was New Year's. Paul wrote Romans in this time span. What have I done in three months, and even two years ago, I think? In March of 23, paul had evangelized a continent.
Speaker 1:A con Before there was technology.
Speaker 4:Yeah, it was just so challenging to me to think about. Obviously, he's driven by the Holy Spirit as an apostle, but to think about what a life that's so sharpened down to such a point of faithfulness. Faithfulness, finish the course, the gospel yeah, it was really challenging to me personally.
Speaker 1:Good, I loved it. Sunday morning John Rouleau spoke. He took us through the text, also another one that we've done a lot through the years. It's kind of a go-to SWO text. He's even taught on that text before, but it was from a different angle where after Jesus has resurrected and the disciples are by themselves and they go fishing and Jesus appears to them. And I had several guys come up to me and say, man, that sermon this morning was exactly for me. It's just neat how many guys would say they would resonate with a breakout or a conversation or one sermon, or one point in one sermon. It happens so much and then, yeah, but John did a phenomenal job with that. I liked, I loved his first point. The first point was don't look back. Don't look back, just quit looking back. And I think that for a lot of dudes, a lot of guys look back either at the glory days or with a defeatist mindset.
Speaker 2:I just keep doing this.
Speaker 1:Don't look back, look forward. Keep your eyes on jesus. I love that first point. And then breakouts. We had hank, zach and sean all teach breakouts and, uh yeah, zack's was phenomenal and in zack's, just fyi z Zach's breakout was exactly what any of us would teach. It was more of a snowbird. This is where snowbird stands. This is what we teach. This is what we align with scripture. On masculinity, we've all taught every point in that breakout before and I love that there's like a cohesion to our mindset when it comes to what is biblical masculinity.
Speaker 1:Even when I was talking to that reporter and he said you know he starts off by the first question. We sit down at the metal building. The first question is what do you say is masculinity? And I was like all I can think of is that one thing where he got that one video where that african news reporter goes are you gay? Why are you gay? Y'all know, have you seen it? Have you seen it? Why are you gay? Why do you say I'm gay? Who says I am gay? You are gay. It's one of the best videos on all of the internet. Um, but like we sit down and the guy goes um, what is masculinity.
Speaker 1:And I was like, uh, did you? I said now, did you listen to zach's breakout? He said, yeah, I did. And I said that's literally our ministry, that's what we've taught. I said hours of content on NSR, hours of teaching content. We've all taught that same basic outline, obviously a little different when each guy teaches it, but it's 80%, 80%, 90%, same content. I was like that's it. So I would encourage you to go back through that breakout and listen to it again when it posts next week.
Speaker 1:And then he said what is the difference? But what is, how would you define taking dominion, not being toxic masculinity? And I said well, zach, explain that not being toxic masculinity. And I said well, zach, explain that. He said he differentiated between being domineering and taking dominion. And I said but what I said to him was I don't entertain the phrase toxic masculinity.
Speaker 1:That is a phrase that was coined by a certain socio-political faction of our culture and I'm not going to use their terminology. What we believe is that God designed masculinity, god designed marriage, god designed sexuality. There are various varying perversions of that, and so if we're going to take masculinity, one perversion of it would be an abuser. Another perversion would be someone who abdicates responsibility. There's different perversions. I'm not going to, I'm not gonna give credence to the phrase toxic masculinity and so, um, just unpacking that with him was good because and he was, you know there's a language barrier there. English is in his first language and it was cool seeing him go. Okay, I get it, I'm tracking with that. It was a good conversation, it was a good dialogue and it was good to be able to just reference back to that.
Speaker 3:Yep, that's cool. I didn't realize. I had the same conversation and he used that term. I was like I don't like to use that.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Because I mean, really, where it got steamed was people using it, but really attacking biblical masculinity it, but really attacking biblical masculinity. But uh, it was there. So he, he, uh, after zach's breakout, which he was nodding at a lot of it. But he, he said, how is joe rogan an example of biblical masculinity? And I was like oh well, uh, I would say he's not but zach referenced, but he had referenced him in that. How many guys you know, whatever 18 to probably 30, something resonate with.
Speaker 4:Joe.
Speaker 3:Rogan, but just because he's definitively masculine.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 3:So he's using that as an example but saying but it's not biblical masculinity. That's right, yeah, so I was glad he asked that. So it doesn't put in the article that we looked at Joe Rogan.
Speaker 1:As an example of biblical masculinity. Yeah, I think Zach had a list. It was like Rogan Jocko, david Goggins. It was a group of guys and he said why are these guys blowing up? Why is this who everybody listens to? And it's because young men. That resonates with them. But we have the blueprint for it. God's the one that designed it Anything, but we have the blueprint for it. God's the one that designed it. Anything else y'all can think of. Andy crushed it again. The food was phenomenal. Yes, cowboy butter, Cowboy butter On steak. Yes, was impressive.
Speaker 4:Not for you. I didn't get it. I didn't see the cowboy butter.
Speaker 3:What's in it. So what he did? I went back I was like where's the cowboy butter? And he had already like glazed it glazed it, and then he gave me a big scoop of it, but yeah, it's just butter with like basically everything in your pantry I spiced up butter, okay, melted and drizzled over your?
Speaker 4:yeah, it was. It was gone or put up by the time I got through, because I came in, came through late. I spiced up butter melted and drizzled over your meat. I'm down with that. Yeah, it was gone or put up by the time I got through, because I came through late.
Speaker 1:But that steak was so good. Oh my gosh, he does such a great job. I'll tell you, vanity of vanities, I didn't get any steaks Friday night because I was preaching and I had finished I told Rob I didn't come to the 4 o'clock meeting because I was literally in the like at 3.30. I was like I got to stop now or power through, and I powered through until about 4.30. And I had Friday night stuff ready, but at that point I was about 60 or 70% done for Saturday morning. I was like I need to at least work on Saturday morning's talk. I was like I need to at least work on saturday morning's talk. I was like I'm not gonna, if I, because you know, if you go eat it's a two-hour commitment because you can't not talk to folks. It's like I need to get through my teaching stuff and you know. So I ate the next, the next rest of the meals from from lunch saturday, supper saturday. But I heard the steak was awesome uh, it was, it was same thing.
Speaker 1:I didn't eat the second night because, uh, getting ready to speak, but the steak was memorable I think the the thing with the steak that's so impressive too is it wasn't a ribeye. It's like, yeah, I don't know what cut it was, but it but he, I mean, he called it something fancy.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's like a shoulder cut. Yeah, yeah, but man, I heard I mean everybody raved about it. When you get that many guys bragging on meat yeah, because guys are critical, right, guys are meat critics. So, all right, we'll wrap that up and, uh, thank y'all for listening and I hope that, if you're not already thinking about it, you'll be thinking about coming to be strong next september. That's our next one. And then also, uh, husbands and wives, we do still offer a marriage conference in October and for you ladies that listen to NSR, if you're not already signed up, our women's conference is in April. So be sure and come to that. Our wives will be leading that and super involved in that. She had just a few spots left and they will go. It'll be full, so hope you can make it.
Speaker 2:And we'll see you next week. Thanks for listening to no sanity required. Please take a moment to subscribe and leave a rating. It really helps. Visit us at swoutfitterscom to see all of our programming and resources, and we'll see you next week on no sanity required.
