No Sanity Required
No Sanity Required is a weekly podcast hosted by Brody Holloway and Snowbird Outfitters. Each week, we engage culture and personal stories with a Gospel-driven perspective. Our mission is to equip the Church to pierce the darkness with the light of Christ by sharing the vision, ideas, and passions God has used to carry us through 26 years of student ministry. Find more content at swoutfitters.com.
No Sanity Required
Life After the Bear Attack | Interview with Bruce Crocker
In this powerful episode, Brody chats with Bruce Crocker, who previously shared his incredible story of surviving a bear attack. Bruce reflects on how this life-changing event deepened his faith and transformed his walk with Christ. Brody and Bruce also discuss their hunting adventures, Bruce and his wife Shauna’s dedicated service at Snowbird Wilderness Outfitters, and the impact of using your talents for God’s glory.
Bruce opens up about his journey from doubting the Bible to fully embracing faith, especially after the bear attack. This episode is packed with wisdom on living with purpose, serving others, and making an eternal impact, no matter your profession or stage in life.
Tune in for an inspiring conversation full of faith, insight, and real-life testimony!
"No Sanity Stories | Surviving a Grizzly Attack"
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Click here to get our Colossians Bible study.
Hey, on this week's episode of no sanity required, sitting down with Bruce Crocker, who's been a guest on here before. A few years ago Bruce came on and shared his story of being attacked by a bear while on a caribou hunt or a moose hunt I don't remember if it was moose or caribou, but he's bow hunting up in Alaska. Uh, survived a horrendous, horrific, uh, grizzly bear attack, grizzly bear attack, and it's a huge part of his testimony and story. And so I wanted to go a little beyond that. This is a no sanity story episode, but I want to do kind of a part two, maybe even a part three, to that uh, to that story and uh, and just let you uh see what the Lord. You know that that attack happened in 1997 and it really turned the trajectory of Bruce's life. He was, uh, he was a Christian, but he was not someone who was really walking out and living out his fate to think, uh, it, it was the pivotal point in his life where God really got his attention and uh, and as a result, um, the Lord changed his life through it. So I wanted to talk a little bit about how he's investing in the ministry at SWO.
Speaker 1:He and his wife Shauna, are incredibly faithful to this ministry and to the Lord. They come down, they spend every winter. They live in Wisconsin but they come down and they'll come to SWO right after Christmas every year, stay until April, stay here in Andrews and uh and work and volunteer. And I mean he works 50 hours, 60 hour weeks at SWO volunteering. He's a an extremely intelligent uh guys, he's such a smart guy. I love talking to Bruce and I um, I'm always blown away by his, his skillset, he's, he's just really handy and helpful and he's an asset to this ministry. His son, brandon Crocker, is the director over all of our operations, which that would include maintenance, new construction, rebuild, plumbing, electrical, everything in the physical plan at Snowbird, and so Bruce jumps in and helps on that side of the house and so I'm excited to bring him back in and have a sit down with him and I know you'll be blessed by it.
Speaker 1:One of the funny things I will say is Bruce has got that Wisconsin, michigan, upper Midwest accent and there's some words he says that just crack me up and I love listening to him and I hope that if you're at a future event at swo especially if you're at be strong men's event you'll get to meet bruce, shake his hand, introduce yourself. You can't miss him. Looks like grizzly adams, he's got a long gray beard and uh hangs down about to his belly and uh he is. He is a. Bruce is a slow treasure, him and Sean. I'm so grateful for him and thankful he would take the time to to come on again, and so I hope that you're encouraged by Bruce's testimony.
Speaker 2:Welcome to no Sanity Required from the Ministry of Snowbird Wilderness Outfitters. A podcast about the Bible, culture and stories from around the globe.
Speaker 1:Let's go back to is it 92?
Speaker 3:It was actually 97.
Speaker 1:97. So let's go back to 97. Let's go back to the hunt before that where you had gone up and killed a caribou with your rifle. Okay, we didn't talk about that. I'd like to hear that story. That's probably a happier story anyway, wasn't it? Did you kill one with your rifle?
Speaker 3:Yeah, that was up in Quebec. What year was that? Oh boy, I don't know, but it was several years before. Yes, yes.
Speaker 3:It wasn't like the year before. No, there was some time in between. Yeah, because I it went. I think my first hunt out of state anyways, was bear hunt up in ontario. And then after that, and it was a buddy that I was going on these hunts with, um excellent christian, good mentor for me, and uh, anyways, then we decided to go to quebec and we went up there and there you're allowed two caribou. So I was able to. Well, I took my bow with me and I wanted to shoot one with the bow and one with the rifle. I shot my first one with the rifle and then you know that rifle's got a scope on it. So I was taking that out with my bow and I was just using that scope up and down the shoreline and, sure enough, there's another nice caribou, and that was you know. So I ended up taking two with the rifle and I, so you took two.
Speaker 1:So when I think of caribou hunting, I don't know why I always thought it was like all either on the Western, in Western Canada, or up in Alaska. So there's caribou, were you like in northern Quebec, right, right, and is that?
Speaker 3:like tundra North of. I think the name of the town that we flew into was Shefferville. Yeah well, they had the rock outcroppings, the big mountainous, you know, rain.
Speaker 1:Really.
Speaker 3:And then I mean I remember climbing one of those and then getting on the top and it was all this uh, like moss and real low, you know growing stuff.
Speaker 1:It was beautiful, but uh, do you have to go through an outfitter if you do that?
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And so y'all, y'all flew into that little town, and then the outfitter picks you up. And then what? Like you said, you're scanning the shoreline. So it's not the deal where you go find the herd.
Speaker 3:Get in front of them well, that's what you're looking for. Is the herd coming through? Okay um, but we were, and they were following basically the, the shorelines, and that's where we were sitting, okay, most of our time there huh, I want to do that.
Speaker 1:I told, uh, so two weeks ago, uh, two weeks ago, we had katie cousins on here, you know, she lives in iceland, did you know that? Oh, yeah, okay. So I said, katie, I want to see what, I wonder if I got caribou, you know. So I want to, I want to dig into this and see, because she's always trying to get me, you know, telling me a little, y'all need to come watch me play soccer. Right, come over. And I'd love to do it. And I said, well, if I can double up this trip. Well, they got to hunt in iceland, you know. So I go, I go looking for icelandic outfitters. Well, it's reindeer, right. Well, I didn't realize. I knew reindeer were a northern animal.
Speaker 3:They look a lot like caribou I think at all it is a domesticated okay reindeer, you know okay, I mean yeah, domesticated, caribou right because they, because reindeer, I mean people herd and farm those things right right so when I pulled those outfitters up and I saw these guys, you know, holding these reindeer, I'm like that's a caribou.
Speaker 1:So so it is basically a caribou. At least it would be a close relative in the in the animal kingdom so you're hunting.
Speaker 3:Rudolph is what you're hunting.
Speaker 1:I'm down for that I was looking for one with the red nose, but I'm gonna I think I'm gonna do it. You can do that hunt. It's very reasonable it wasn't bad.
Speaker 3:There's a. If you really want the, the cheap hunt, you can go in the middle of the winter where they've lost their antlers so you don't get, but you get your meat, your meat, and that you actually can drive all the way up. My brother did that hunt Drive all the way up there and hunt them it was the way he describes it. I mean, it's just snow, cold, very cold.
Speaker 1:So go hunt caribou after they've shed their horns, right, and they have a season for that, yeah, and so you're just meat hunting. Yep, that's pretty cool. I think I want the horns, though, yeah.
Speaker 3:I know I want to bring the horns home, Truth be told. That's what affects us.
Speaker 1:It really does, you'll hear these guys say well, you can't eat the horns, I'm just meat hunting. I get that. I appreciate that sentiment and there's times where I mean three seasons ago I shot the smallest buck I've shot in 20 years. I mean there's a little four-point forky horn, I don't care, I've shot in 20 years. I mean there's a little four-point forky horn.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, I don't care. I'm meat hunting my place up in Wisconsin. You don't pass on the spikes and the forks, so you're not going to be eating any venison.
Speaker 1:So if you're going to, yeah, if you want to put meat in the freezer, you're shooting a small buck, yep, but it is nice when you see eight-.
Speaker 3:We don't pass on them either.
Speaker 1:You know, I killed two good bucks this year here, two good ones, the best two bucks I've ever killed in the mountains of North Carolina, both in one season, and one was during archery season and one was during rifle season yeah, my grandson had a year like that as well.
Speaker 3:Just unbelievable the size of bucks he had. But that spoils it for him. It really does. He's too young to have that oh you're talking about your grandson, that's here.
Speaker 1:No, the one up north, the one in Wisconsin. Yeah, I will tell you this. I took Brandon Bruce's son. I took Brandon up and showed him a couple spots several years ago where I love to hunt. And I've got a few places that I love to hunt that I'll also share with other people, you know, and uh, and then I've got a few places that ain't nobody's business. You know, it's kind of like you've got. You got, you got to have those, those spots that you know and I'm sure other people know about them, you know trout fishing, the same way my neighbor up North at the cottage.
Speaker 3:anyways, they're always wondering where I'm going with that kayak and it's, it's a secret yeah, none of your business, my other neighbor is the one that told me about it but that you're guaranteed to catch your three trout. Wow, it's, it's a blast and it's basically you're fishing in like a pond, it's okay, spring ponds.
Speaker 1:So when you're up there, y'all's trout fishing, because we're closed here right now. On the mainstream, right, you can fish some of the smaller stuff, right, but up there are y'all catching. What are y'all catching? What do y'all have?
Speaker 3:Well, primarily in the streams, we have brookies. It's brookies, they do plant, like browns and rainbows.
Speaker 1:And those brookies is it like here where it's single hook, artificial 7-inch?
Speaker 3:We have all sorts of rules. Every stream's got like a different color to it as far as on the map Yep, and then they have different regulations. So you know they try to gear towards everybody.
Speaker 1:I've got a guy that was. He was one of my teachers when I was in I think I was in like ninth grade and he teaches at Tuscola high school in over in waynesville and his name's ray sug and he is a southern appalachian teach. He teaches southern appalachian history and culture. So I'm going to actually I'm hoping to have him on the on the podcast. I want to have him on here and I want to have, uh, my, my aunt debbie, who is also like our family historian. Oh, wow, but Ray Sugg, he's the only person that I know of I think there have been a handful of guys that have done this that has fished all 1,000-plus classified trout streams in North Carolina. Wow, so he's caught a fish in over 1,000 streams in the state of North Carolina. He's a big fly fisherman. That's neat, yeah, and fly fishing, by the way.
Speaker 1:I got some opinions about that. I put those guys in the same category as never mind. They probably get soy milk in their lattes. You know what I mean. I own one of those rods. Look, I'll say it. I know Hank and Blake Harris. He's one of our board members, Hank and Blake Harris, he's one of our board members. They're going to give me some grief.
Speaker 3:I always talk trash about fly fishing, but when I want to catch my three, I just grab my spinning rod.
Speaker 1:That's right, there's a place for it all. I'm just giving the fly fisherman a hard time. It is a phenomenal sport and, if I'm honest, I just stink at it. I've never been able to figure it out. So you know, when you're not good at something and you're insecure, you just make fun of it. Absolutely, that's kind of the way I operate.
Speaker 1:But anyway, back to the hunting thing. I think I'm going to go, lord willing, 26 at the end of next summer, I think I'm going to go to Iceland. Oh, caribou hunt or reindeer hunt, cool, yeah, because I looked it up and it's, it's actually pretty affordable. And katie, if she's still there now, you know she's season by season contract, so you have to put in for that and all in, uh, january for an august, I think january 31st or february something is the cutoff. So you got to apply for your tags. You do that through an outfitter you have. You know there's no public land hunting or no, you know self-guided. So you got to go through an outfitter and then, uh, so I'm going to do that and, lord willing, I'm gonna go. I'm gonna go to Iceland. And she said when you fly into, you know Iceland, did you know this? That, uh, you got Iceland and Greenland. Greenland's the really cold place Right and Iceland is.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's backwards, yeah, and apparently the Vikings or somebody named it to try to throw people off. I did read that. So they said well, we'll call this Greenland, but it's all ice, oh yeah, which we're going to own it soon, from what I hear, we've got the Gulf of America.
Speaker 3:I heard that last night.
Speaker 1:I heard it last night in the State of the Union, which, politics aside, it is pretty funny to think about. But then Iceland is a really nice place. I mean it's chilly, but it's a really nice place and it's green. So I'm looking at this thing and it's like you fly into the capital, reykjavik, which is 80-something percent of the country's population lives in or around that city. Okay, then from there it's an eight-hour trek. You drive eight hours out to the western outskirts of the country and that's where you hunt. I watched this video and it literally looks like what you're describing. It looks like you're in parts I've seen of northern Canada or the foothills of the Brooks Range or something like that. So I'll keep you posted. That sounds great and if it goes good I'll let you know. You and Brandon might want to do that trip. So I want to hear you mentioned you had already gone up and done a bear hunt, right, what was that? Was that black bear?
Speaker 3:That was black bear.
Speaker 1:That's where you're also like scanning the shoreline.
Speaker 3:No, that was.
Speaker 1:Was that over bait Baited stands Okay.
Speaker 3:And it was through an outfitter as well. I mean, he baited the stands and he had stands for us, and that's what he did. What province was that? That was Ontario, by Dryden, I believe.
Speaker 1:And you did. That was also a rifle hunt.
Speaker 3:No that's the first animal I ever killed with my bull, which doesn't make a whole lot of sense. I think you'd practice with a deer before you'd go pay good money and go up. Yeah, yeah, and it was a bull that I bought at like a discount house store type thing, and it was just you know things that a normal person wouldn't do you ain't normal.
Speaker 3:You ain't normal and then I stuck that the shot was a little off and I put it into the, the liver, um, and it was going into a 55 gallon drum. And there was it was. I believe it was already tipped over and there was a skunk that came out, sprayed the bear.
Speaker 3:Anyways, I, I shot that bear and we had a little bit of trailing and you could actually you could smell the skunk as you're trailing it. And it was one of those deals too, where, where it went, that bear went a little ways. So it was like, oh God, you know, please give me this bear.
Speaker 1:The guy's got a rifle, you're by yourself, no, trailing the bear.
Speaker 3:Well, I was just, you know, following the blood trail and there wasn't much. But no, he was walking behind me without a gun. But no, he was walking behind me without a gun. And the weirdest part is when he got ahead of me and then he told me to you know, get your bow ready. And I'm thinking he's going to run back at me. And I got my bow pointed at him.
Speaker 1:You know, that's got How's that going to but?
Speaker 3:anyways, the bear was dead, but it was a dandy of a bear, it wasn't. Uh, 19 and well, I think 19 and three quarters. They measured in 16th, but anyways it was a big head yeah it was a, you know, pulping young bear for sure, and it was close. I think 20 is the yeah, so it's a dandy yeah, it was an old bear. His teeth were all worn down and it was black. It wasn't a color phase no, it was black. I didn't even have white on his uh chest either.
Speaker 1:No, wow man, what'd you do? Did you have anything done with the hide?
Speaker 3:I had a half mount.
Speaker 1:So have you got that up at the at the cottage?
Speaker 3:I got it at the house and I and, uh, if you're, you get a trophy, spend a little bit more for the mount. This one I didn't oh it. It doesn't look. I actually redid the the mouth because he put in a too small of a set of choppers in it huh, did you?
Speaker 1:you're saying you you skimped on the taxidermy like you paid a local boy. That was not, yep, okay, yeah, yeah, buy once, cry once. Yep, yes, I had that happen. I shot a deer. I went, I went to a new property this was 15 years ago at least and uh, you know, steve finn, no chestnut mountain boys ranch, they come to slow and he's been on the podcast and um, both you and steve have spoken at be strong but um, steve and I do a hunt together every year.
Speaker 1:It's kind of we've been doing that for 25 years and so every year we meet up somewhere and we we've moved around, we've hunted several states and we've, you know, we've bow hunted deer and and uh, ohio, and we've, you know, gone down South and Alabama and and so we were rifle hunting in Alabama that year and it was a new property we'd never been on and uh, it's actually connected to Gar Bozeman's family and his dad had gotten permission or maybe it was a hunting. It was a big tract of uh, paper company timber or something like that, and I walked in. We get down there and, you know, your first time hunting a new property, especially if it's in the evening, you don't have a lot of time to set up and so I didn't. I never scouted it. This is before you could e-scout. Now you can scout stuff pretty good from the computer. You know, with google earth and Onyx and stuff like that Didn't have that.
Speaker 1:So I just walked this logging road and it was all pines. You know you go down south and it's just pine, oh sure, pine, timber as far as you can see. And so I just walked in until I found I saw some scrapes on a little bit of a ridge it's mostly flat but a little bit of hill country. And I found saw some scrapes on a little bit of a ridge it's mostly flat but a little bit of hill country. And I found kind of a high point and a little swag, a little saddle, and I'm here, I'll sit right here. And I had one of those. I don't know if you've ever seen them, but it's a one-man chair, blind, so you just sit in a chair about like we're sitting in, and it's literally this tiny little blind. Okay, only one person can sit in it and the blind is attached to the chair. It's kind of one of those soccer mom chairs, you know, lawn chairs that folds out and so you've got you know you can. You can really only see out the front on the on this one I had. So I set it up, kind of facing down this ridge. I'm rifle hunting, but I mean the farthest I could see was maybe 30 yards. I mean it's thick in there, and nothing happened and I didn't see anything. And and so the next morning I'm like, well, I'm going to be hunting in the dark, so I'll just come back to this spot, then I'll do a short hunt. If nothing shows up, I'll get up and spend three or four hours scouting this area and then set up for the evening hunt.
Speaker 1:Next morning I go in, I set up in that little chair. I remember I set till nine o'clock. I hadn't seen a thing, hadn't seen a squirrel. Ain't no squirrels in the pines. There's nothing for them to eat, you know. And so not even a squirrel. And it was nine o'clock and I said I'm going to read. I'm going to read the book of Romans. When I'm done reading the book of Romans I'm going to get out of the blind and go start scouting. Get out of the blind and go start scouting. So I read the book of Romans. I get done.
Speaker 1:That took, I don't remember, maybe half an hour or 45 minutes, whatever you know. I put my stuff up, I set my little backpack outside of the blind. I reach out of the blind and sit it on the ground and when I do, there is a buck 25 yards away making a scrape and he's got his horns. It's a big buck and he's got his horns is a big buck and he's got his horns in the in the dirt and that scrape hook in the mud and just slinging it back over his head.
Speaker 1:You know he's putting on a show. I mean, he pees on his hocks and he's and I'm I'm kind of in an awkward position. He's to my right, so I'm gonna have to shoot left-handed, but my gun is still in the blind and I'm halfway out of the blind and he hasn't seen me yet. He's just so you know, a wise old buck, but when he's in the rut he loses his mind and he's just paying attention to the doe that tried to turns out there's. I didn't see her, but there's a doe with him. Well, she sees me and that'll mess you up. Oh yeah, but I, but I reached in and pulled my rifle out and got it up to my left shoulder and and that movement was enough that he raised his head and looked at me, you know, and I shot him right through the brisket, wow, and so just, and he collapsed.
Speaker 1:So just a very, you know, a memorable, a really cool hunt, right, you know. And and I took him to a guy to have that thing man to do the taxidermy work, and it looked like a cartoon, you know. I mean all that. It took him two years before, you know, I'm going over trying to get him. Somebody said, oh yeah, he's the cheapest around. Well, there's a reason he's cheap, you know, between between miller beer and whatever else he was on, you know, he, he wasn't a very good tax number, so I learned.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, I learned that's the worst yeah.
Speaker 3:My caribou that I got. I took that to a quality guy and that looks great.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's all the difference. The local guy here, if you ever need work done, there's a local guy here that's really good and he's about half the price of anybody I've ever seen. He's good. So, yeah, oh, we'll stay tuned on the. Well, we won't, we won't get into, you know we've. We'll link the the story of your 97 hunt, and the in the attack. Um, we've worked through that. So we're going to link that story that people can go back and listen to.
Speaker 1:But that I'd like to pick up, kind of where neither one of us remember exactly where we left off. You know, we we did that episode three years ago, four years ago. But I'd like what I want to do is, uh, we're we're going to roll this episode out next week, so so a couple of weeks before our be strong conference, and I want to challenge men to use their gifts, their talent, their time, their treasure. You'll hear people talk about time, talent, treasure, and this morning in my devotion I was reading in Ecclesiastes, because we're getting ready to go through that at church and I'm preaching the second chapter in a couple weeks here, and so I started sort of sermon prep and you know that guy's talking about. You know, I've had everything the world can offer you money, uh, earthly treasure, houses, land. He even mentions the word concubines, you know this? Sexual promiscuity.
Speaker 1:This guy experienced, no, nothing that his flesh desired he couldn't say yes to. And then he said it's like trying to grab a hold of smoke or the wind you can't grab it. And one of the things that I want men to be challenged with is the reality that there are things you can do with your life that have tangible and eternal significance, and you don't have to be a pastor, a preacher or an evangelist. You don't have to be a full-time missionary. You can take your time, talent and treasures and use them for the Lord's glory. And so we talked about this before. But just a quick overview of what your line of work was, your career, what kind of work did you do? I know this, but I want our listeners to hear kind of what your background was before you retired.
Speaker 3:Sure, I went to Michigan Tech and got a degree in chemical engineering and then from there I landed a job with Wisconsin Public Service. It's an electric utility and they were building a new power plant at the time a coal-fired plant and it was a higher-pressure boiler than what they had had experience with. So they were gearing up, trying to get knowledge of how to operate the higher pressure, what type of water chemistry you need. So that's why I was hired and other chemical engineers actually were hired for that Started my job with the startup of that unit and then, as most engineers, you're an engineer for a year or two and then you become a supervisor, and that was it from that point on. Just being a supervisor of you know people and learning all the ins and outs A lot more challenging with people than it is with machinery, that's right.
Speaker 1:Yes, amen to that. How many years did you do that?
Speaker 3:33 years.
Speaker 1:And then retired.
Speaker 3:Right, yeah, I retired at age 55. My dad thought I was nuts, but my father-in-law he was also. He retired at 55 and he only lived to 71. So you know, I I wanted to return and and the other thing. I had a pretty good paying job and, uh, I knew we could do it if we planned.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I want to get into that because I was talking to a guy. I don't want to give any clues to who this guy was, but I was talking to a guy recently and I, I, you know, I don't know how much he makes and I don't know his portfolio or whatever, but it's you can kind of connect the dots and I know his career, I know what he does for a living and I know probably generally what he's making and I see what you know, the land he owns, the number of houses he's built and sold as a side hustle, and right, yeah, you kind of do the math and I go and this guy's now 60 and he's saying I hope, I'm trying to figure out if I have enough money to retire at 65. And I'm like this guy's worth millions. I think it goes back to that Ecclesiastes thing.
Speaker 1:Just, you know, you, you you can live a lot simpler than, oh, absolutely. Then you and that's something that I respect about you and Shauna is y'all live simply so that I believe that's how you've been able to bless others. And you know it's been an enormous blessing for Snowbird because for people that this is where I'll I'll, I'll speak to kind of what y'all do for us is you come down every year around Christmas time, right after, and you stay till April. Is that about the timeframe?
Speaker 3:Yep.
Speaker 1:And, uh, bruce is. You know he's a, he's a guy that for our listeners, do pretty much anything, um, so you devote a lot of time to this ministry. You've devoted a lot of time, talent, treasures to this ministry over the years, and so has Shauna, so is your wife, and it's been for us. We've been the beneficiaries of of that. But I'd like for you to just speak to is that? You know you hear people talk about it's. You know there's a biblical principle it's more blessed to give than to receive. And and the fulfillment that comes from that, what is that done? How would you describe, you know, the three or four months a year that you spend here? How has that impacted your life?
Speaker 3:It's difficult to answer. It's impacted it a lot. I mean, what I get coming to Red Oak and Snowbird is it's like going to a men's retreat for three months into a men's retreat for three months. The people I've met at Snowbird devoted their lives to the gospel and investing in youth and it's just phenomenal what that gives a person. The takeaway is it's hard to describe, but it's like a mentorship. As far as understanding the word. That's been huge.
Speaker 3:I'm at the point in my life too where I feel like I'm losing as much as I'm gaining. So maybe I'm at the point in my life too, where I feel like I'm losing as much as I'm gaining. So maybe I'm at the break-even point, but I don't know. The other thing is well not to answer that question, but the clock is ticking. You know, I think being attacked by a bear definitely was a wake-up call for me.
Speaker 3:We just studied the book of Job and how that, to me, kind of woke me up a little bit as far as how God controls everything. I mean chapter after chapter of God controlling everything, and then you start thinking that one through and you know this part of my life and I know at times I go too far, I'm too driven in some fashions, but I feel the clock is ticking. It's ticking. You know, during the COVID years I lost two of my best buddies, buddies in Christ. I mean the one we team-teached the youth Sunday school class and that was freshly out of college. And what an impact that had on my life as far as okay.
Speaker 3:Now you're telling other people what you believe, and that was huge.
Speaker 1:Well, I'll say and I know this is going to make you uncomfortable, you're already uncomfortable. Just doing this. Which is what I love and appreciate about you is you're a guy that both of y'all you and your amazing bride of how many years?
Speaker 3:Uh-oh, I didn't do that. I wrote down all my grandkids' ages Rough guesstimate. We got married in 77, two years after high school.
Speaker 1:Two years away from 50. You're coming up on 50 years.
Speaker 1:Yeah yeah, wow, that's a big one. High school sweetheart, wow, and y'all have devoted together to do this. I think that's important is you're sharing in you're, you're sharing in this part of your life together and, uh, it's very inspirational to. I don't think you realize the impact not Okay, so the physical impact of your day-to-day work efforts at snowbird. You're, you're, you're showing up, you know, you.
Speaker 1:You come to work to the eight o'clock meeting every day and you work the the whole day. You don't come down here to volunteer a few hours a day, which would be fine if you did. It would be awesome if you came and worked a day or two a week. My granddad in his senior years would come over and work one day a week. He would come, which he didn't have the physical ability those last years and so he would help out with clerical stuff in the office. He couldn't walk or move good, and but he would devote a day a week. That was a blessing. But you come down here and you put in a 40 hour work week and and, uh, and you volunteer it and it's inspirational to.
Speaker 1:I don't think you realize the impact it has on our people and I'm not trying to make you feel embarrassed or uncomfortable, but guys like Chad Regal and Joseph Wainwright that have come out of the trades and devoted there, that's a, that's a couple of guys that I'm going to have on here I'm going to have them on together that have devoted.
Speaker 1:You know, those are guys that God raised up and gifted to work in the trades, right and, and to some degree Brandon is like that, but now and and to some degree Brandon is like that, but now Brandon Brandon's unique because he has the ability to teach the Bible and and you know, he's led, uh, the element program, and. But guys like Joseph and Chad, their whole background was in the world of construction and trades and you know, joseph Wainwright can operate anything with levers and pedals, right, you know he could, you know he could, probably, he could probably fly 747 you know, we have not seen what he can do yet yeah, I mean, it's going to be so fun to watch him put his gifts and talents to work when we start this master development plan.
Speaker 1:And I just want men to be inspired to know. I think guys a a lot of times think well, I'm not a preacher, I don't have you know, I don't, god hasn't called me to pastor. And so what do I offer, man? You offer, the work of the kingdom is this. There's such broad work and even if it's not at Snowbird, there's work to be done through your local church or in some ministry, maybe in your hometown. If you're not, uh, in a position where you can retire and give three months a year to something, you can still use the skills and the talents God's given you. And so I think it's inspiring for our younger men to what you do here, and especially for our younger men who are in leadership, like Chad and Joseph, to not waste your retirement years. You know right To redeem them. You know I remember years ago. Did you ever read that John Piper book? Don't waste your life.
Speaker 3:Yes, I did Remember the whole seashell thing and, uh, I remember the part where the retired couple and they buy a sailboat and then they, they go off and it's like what, what are you accomplishing? Yes, my mom and dad bought a sailboat and they did that kind of too.
Speaker 1:That's the point I was going to. That was the scene I wanted to see. If you remembered, yeah, because what it was? It was an article in, I think it was in Reader's Digest. It was an article back in the 90s that he was citing in that and they had retired in their 50s, moved to one of these port you know Gulf cities in Florida and, yeah, bought a sailboat and you know collecting seashells and playing shuffleboard and you know he made that point. What are you going to present to the Lord there? Right?
Speaker 3:Plus, you'd drive your wife crazy. If you're out on a sailboat with her for day after day, she's gonna go nuts she'd lose her mind.
Speaker 1:Y'all used to go down somewhere and fish off of uh, annabelle yes, annabelle, out in uh captive island my mother-in-law and father-in-law owned a place down there.
Speaker 3:That's some good fish. Oh that was something. We had a two-man kayak. I'd take that thing out there in the gulf and go after sea trout.
Speaker 1:Oh it was fun man, I want to do that, so I'm going as this episode drops. I'll be down there on the gulf, me and little and laylee are headed down for just for four days and, uh, I'll let you know how we do. I'm going to fish and cool see what we can haul in.
Speaker 1:but and I, yeah, and I don't want to paint the picture that people shouldn't go on some trips and have some fun, right, you know, I mean there's a place for that but when you live your whole, what a waste to live, to work 35, 40 years in a field so that you can go collect seashells or sail around or you know, whatever you're going to do with your spare time, do something that's got, that's going to have kingdom impact and, um, that's what I appreciate is that you're you're using those gifts and talents for the lord. And that bear attack was, was instrumental. I mean, that was a the probably the pivotal moment in your life.
Speaker 3:Yeah, by far that's the biggest one. That's typically what I call my testimony. And my brother had fallen away from the Lord and I mean prior to that hunt I had prayed that we would use that hunt I mean for us a hunt like that where you're paying to fly up to Alaska and get dropped off on a river, given a raft and you're going to float down and go after moose pretty pricey for us. So it was a commitment. Anyways, I can kind of get off the point of what I was trying to make. I prayed to the Lord that that would make I mean, we're going to spend 15 days in a raft floating a river that I could talk to Randy and have an impact on his life.
Speaker 3:The other part of my testimony is it was a time in my life that I had too much doubt in my life as far as my Christianity, my thought and the elements was like evolution. How does this all play out? What part of the Bible is true and what part isn't? And you know, those are those thoughts that go through your head, the doubt, and it affects you. I mean so and I wanted, I wanted a like a physical sign from God, and you know, after the bear attack. That's just so stupid.
Speaker 3:And the fact that dig into God's word. It is a miracle the way we the Bible was written, that it was written by so many authors over so many years. And, okay, sit down and what Lee Strobel tried to prove it wrong. Basically, sit down and figure out. You know what's the odds of all this happening. I was just reading an outdoor magazine the other day. Reading an outdoor magazine the other day and it described the moon and how a meteor supposedly hit this other meteor and drove it into orbit around the earth and I thought what faith this guy has for writing this article and then why wouldn't? How can people believe such a thing?
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's blind faith. They say that we live by faith and we do. But what kind of faith.
Speaker 3:I mean, that's the one thing. I sit out. I love deer hunting. I sit out there and you know the Bible talks about creation speaking for I'll get the words wrong but basically declaring God's glory. And you sit there hour after hour. Where I hunt up in Wisconsin, you can spend day after day without seeing a deer, but anyways, you're looking at rocks and you're looking at trees and you know, at the judgment, judgment seat of christ, that anybody that hunts that's going to declare why in the world did you not see the glory of god? You know there is a god and there's no way that this creation just came about. I mean all these fantasy ideas of a man that said it evolved, that's stupid, but yet people just believe it.
Speaker 1:Well, I think it's coming from you. It's very powerful because you're an engineer. It's very powerful because you're an engineer and someone who's sort of mathematically inclined is going to tend to require or demand different level of evidence. You know a person that's very mathematical, tends to be more analytical, and so to me it's. It's when someone like you becomes convinced of the, the, the truth and the efficacy of the word of God. It's, it's such a powerful testimony because you are an analytical, you're an analytically minded person, if that makes sense. You know someone who's more, uh, artistic or poetic in their expression. You know, I talked to some people who are, uh, they just kind of got a simple faith.
Speaker 3:I just you know.
Speaker 1:I see the beauty of creation and I'll just accept God, and that's. I kind of envy those types of that type of faith, cause I'm I'm not super mathematical, but by nature I'm a very pessimistic critical. What's the word where you're hard to convince? You know what I mean? I'm very skeptical. Is the word I'm skeptical? If somebody tells me they've done X, Y or Z, my natural tendency is I don't know if I believe. Yeah, that's exactly the way I'm just a skeptical person.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I'm a dead ringer for that. I mean, it drives brandon crazy. He'll tell me something and I'm walking over there, turn it on and check it out. I do it time and time again and he just he drives him nuts well, it's that engineering, mind you.
Speaker 1:You know it's the way God wired you. I really do think that. But when a person like that comes to faith, to me it's harder to get a person with that type of hardwiring to embrace and accept the gospel by faith. But once you do, it's so solid, it's just like it locks it in. Yeah, it's so solid.
Speaker 3:It's just like it locks it in, it's absolute. After that bear attack, it's like I'm all in. This is the truth, this is the way I mean. It's just there is nothing you know, and prior to that, it's like you're doubting. You're doubting Just a little bit here, a little bit there. It's like you're doubting. You're doubting Just a little bit here, a little bit there. The magazine that I get it's full of evolution stuff. Just a little tidbit here and a little bit there and to me it drives me nuts, yeah, me too.
Speaker 1:Have y'all been to the? I'm sure you have.
Speaker 3:Have you been to the Creation Museum? Yeah, when we brought the youth group down a few years back, we stopped there on the way down, and then the way back Museum on the way you know one way, and then the.
Speaker 1:Ark on the other. So we haven't been. I think we're going to go this spring. We haven't decided what we're going to do when our kids are out for that week of spring break. I think we only have the three younger ones at home now. I think we might go up there. That was cool. Um, that's, that's really I. I haven't been there, but I've read a lot of what you know those guys put out and most of those evolutionary questions are are fairly simply answered.
Speaker 1:You know the, the question, the, the evolutionary arguments you know with, whether it's with carbon dating or with right there's. It's usually pretty easy to to debunk some of that and yet yet, like you said, people will grab on to that right and you talk about living by faith.
Speaker 1:I read this morning are you familiar with those little comes out of michigan. Uh, our daily bread, devotional sure. So super simple, not a lot of depth, but I love it and I read it to my kids every morning and, uh, yeah, I figure it takes about three minutes. I figure, if I can get them to hang on for three, three minutes, they're in that what I call you know, you've got, you got a couple grandsons in this what I call the fog. From about 13 to 17 those boys go into the fog. It's like is there? I know the lights are kind of on, but is anybody home? So I'm, I'm just trying to give them a nugget, you know, and, if nothing else, just trust it, cause there's always a verse of scripture and then a little devotional thought. But anyway, this morning's thought was, uh, the verse was from Isaiah 40 and it was one of those. You know, the Lord's ways are higher than our ways.
Speaker 1:It's a mystery, a profound mystery, and the story that it told was in 2023, I forget the name, but there's a space telescope not Hubble, but there's a newer one that's kind of like the most advanced telescope that we're using to look into deep space 2023, looking through this telescope and they found six new galaxies within our universe that have never been seen before.
Speaker 1:And you just think, like in Romans 11, oh, the depth of the riches of wisdom and knowledge of God. How unsearchable are his ways, how unknowable, and that you know I got. You're talking about Job, and I had the privilege of preaching my favorite passage in all of the Old Testament Job 38 through 41, where God answers out of the whirlwind and says brace yourself like a man and now get ready. And he takes Job on this journey through creation and says where were you when I did this? And the dude's just speechless. You know, and and I think, uh, what kind of faith do you have to have to reject what God has revealed of himself in creation and not at least ask the question where'd this come from? And and but what I'm convinced and tell me if you you agree with this or if you've got thoughts on this evolution is a way of answering those questions that lets you still be in control. You get to be your own God.
Speaker 3:Yep, definitely You're on authority. It's man's religion.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because it is. It's a religion, right, 100% religion. We can wrap this up, but I wanted to first off run through. Can you do this? Or do you need to take your notes out that your grandkids how many grandkids, kids and grandkids, right? How many do you have?
Speaker 3:I got three uh kids, um, they're all adults now, of course uh, a daughter and then two sons, um, and then I have 10 grandkids. Big difference between kids and grandkids. You know that now, now.
Speaker 1:I do, I was kidding the other day, I said. I said I'm now in your guild, I'm in the, I'm in the granddad guild.
Speaker 3:You don't have as much, uh, direct involvement, um, which is a blessing and it's a curse. It's a curse as far as, uh, you know, leading them towards the Lord. Uh, you don't have the day, far as you know, leading them towards the Lord. You don't have the day-to-day, you know, impact on them from that standpoint, sometimes, what the parents do, you don't necessarily agree and you don't, you know, you can't. You got to respect them as well, but I don't know. And then the impact that we have on our grandkids too, it's just talk about. The days are ticking away. Make use of what you got when you got it, and Shauna does a good job of keeping me on task, as far as you know, hey, we got a basketball game here. We got this. It's important, uh, to be there for them. Uh, and, quite frankly, you know, sitting in a bleacher it's painful but hard, wouldn't believe it's? Uh, it's. That's an opportunity.
Speaker 1:You have to be there yes, we always kid sean and mugs. You know they both. We tell them they're both 80, even though they're in their forties, or whatever. They bring in those big padded fold out chairs and go in those bleachers and I'm starting to think wait, why am I kidding those guys? I need to get me one, absolutely, man, it's rough For basketball.
Speaker 3:You know you go there and there's actually four games. You're sitting there, Wow. That's rough, that's rough.
Speaker 1:It's a long gosh, it is.
Speaker 3:But yet I've sat in. Deer stands for all day. That's right, and it's not very comfortable either.
Speaker 1:That's right, yeah, so what's the age of the oldest?
Speaker 3:grandkid 23. And the youngest is a five-year-old little girl. Okay, and we're going into the next stage where, as they're growing up now, we're no longer going to have babies anymore.
Speaker 1:That's wild.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so that's just the different phases of life, yeah.
Speaker 1:And you're two years away from 50 years of marriage. Yes, that's wild. Praise the Lord for his faithfulness, though, and we dated for four years prior to Wow.
Speaker 3:I don't recommend that either.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's right Now I'm going to make you feel very old. I'm in my 50s and you might have been dating the year I was born, let's see. No, you started dating in 73,. If you dated four years, let's see. You got married 77. Yep, I was born in 72. So almost that makes you feel old.
Speaker 1:Look, last week, joy beth, sitting in that chair right there, okay, and we're talking, and I and I was going to tell her. Remember when, uh, when, hobos were a thing, people would work the soup line and ride trains. And so I'm telling this story about this hobo that showed up on our doorstep. So I'm telling JB this story and I said, back in the seventies, when I, when I was a kid in the seventies, and she literally Bruce laughed out loud into the microphone, I just stopped and I said what? Why is that funny? You know. So I feel like you know. The scripture is very clear so much more to offer the older you get when it comes to wisdom and knowledge. You don't have the physical ability anymore to do some of the things you want to do, but with that, we have a responsibility to use the wisdom God's given us.
Speaker 3:And Brandon told me something that you do that I think is is pretty, pretty neat and that is it's like a monthly yeah, it's not that frequent, but I kind of occasionally yeah, I mean I I've gotten, uh I don't know, 23, 24 letters that I've written now, um, but letters from my grandkids, okay, and uh, I mean it's goofy stuff, but there is a message in there on each one that I'm trying to get. Get it through. Get it across and using, you know the avenue that I've been given.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I love that. It's very inspiring to me.
Speaker 3:I got that actually from well. We had, uh, marriage counseling from our pastor and his wife, which their lives is a story in itself. They were both. He lost his wife, I think, to cancer late in life. They already had their kids and she lost her husband to cancer late in life. They got married and of course, he's still the preacher of the church there in town and she becomes the preacher's wife. Not used to living with a class, you know in a house.
Speaker 3:But what they've done for us. You know he was a loving minister to the point where I mean being a pastor in a church. That's got to be a hard thing to do. I mean, people's lives go off the wall sometimes and you're there to try to put it back together. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:I told a guy recently I was, I was uh talking with this young man. It's going through his second divorce. He's young, he's 30 years old, Doesn't have the Lord at the center of his life. The Lord wasn't at the center of their marriage.
Speaker 2:I don't think this wife has ever made a profession of faith but this this young man has and he was.
Speaker 1:He was emotional, you know, and we're talking and uh and and just talking about the but but his background he was in the military and then he was in law enforcement. He got out of military and became a police officer and he was sharing some some of the struggles in his marriage or because of some post-traumatic stress stuff. And uh, and some of the struggles in his marriage are because of some post-traumatic stress stuff, and that from the law enforcement field more than from military, because when he was in the military he was a mechanic, so he wasn't in a combat role but in law enforcement and he shared some stories of dealing with some people and one was the death of a child who was being cared for or who was in the care of drug addicts and they neglected this kid and this kid, they caused this kid's death. But he was there trying to do CPR. But then he also he's talking about some of the things he's seen.
Speaker 1:But anyway, it's interesting when I talk to somebody like that. It's such a crazy world that that guy's been in. I think one of the craziest career fields, and you know what I mean when I say the word career fields. But being in full-time ministry, you see the ultimate highs but the ultimate lows in humanity the number of people that you deal with that are dealing with addiction or abuse, or you know you're dealing with people in the hour of death, and ministry is hard.
Speaker 3:That affects their eternity. You know, I mean as a supervisor, and I, you know, made a comment about dealing with people is so much more of a challenge and rewarding. You know, made a comment about dealing with people so much more of a challenge and rewarding, but when you're looking at their, their eternity, it's, it's a little bit more sobering, it is.
Speaker 1:And you can. I think it's important that mindset of for for people that work in a field where they're not in ministry but where they're responsible whether you're a business owner, a supervisor, an officer, a manager, where you've got people in your care, I don't care if you're the shift manager at a restaurant you have an opportunity to speak into people's lives and to, if nothing else, to example faithful Christ following to them.
Speaker 1:You know and it's going to have an impact right the longer, the longer you commit to follow Jesus, the more of that impact you have the potential to have. Well, I appreciate you sharing, I know it. I know that, uh, you're, you're, uh, you prefer to be behind the scenes and I appreciate that about you and I think most people that prefer to be behind the scenes have more to offer than what you realize unless you drill into it a little bit, because there's a wisdom that comes with people, that what you and Shauna have done and I hope this inspires listeners by just serving in a capacity where you're not seen, you're literally behind the scenes. Now, when people see you, you stand out. Uh, you got a beard about a foot long, a gray beard about a foot long. I love it because the young people every year when you come down, we got a new wave of interns, you know, and it's an opportunity to speak into their lives. But I always encourage those young guys. I'm like, hey, make sure you get some time working with Bruce, because there's a wealth of life, knowledge, experience, wisdom, and you don't get that overnight.
Speaker 1:It comes with the highs and the lows and I think people that haven't heard it will go back and listen to the episode we did where you walked through your testimony related to the bear attack and hope that they'll be encouraged by that, but I wanted them to hear you know kind of that was. That was so long ago and God used it to turn your life and now, 30 years later, almost the effect of God, what God did there? Not just like you said. You know they say be careful what you ask for.
Speaker 3:Right.
Speaker 1:You asked the Lord to use that trip to impact your brother Right, and he did. He did and it almost cost you your life. Yeah, but he got a hold of Randy.
Speaker 3:I mean, during the attack I swore I said oh shit. And then two things were going through my mind is I'm ready, lord, but I don't want to go yet, you know.
Speaker 3:So I mean yeah, it was intense. It was putting you right where you needed to be, at least where I needed to be. My life is. I've made so many mistakes in my life and God's been good in so many ways. You know, I married my high school sweetheart. I went through marriage counseling with my minister and, uh, he asked shauna he was, you know, the minister of the church that I was attending anyways asked her if she I forget the actual wording, but what was her? Uh, spiritual beliefs, I don't know what. And and she picked up on that. Oh yeah, I'm I'm really interested. She said I think she said witchcraft. So, okay, I married a nonbeliever and my minister still married us. I never got in touch with him. Hopefully, he kind of kept tabs with me through the years. Um, shauna accepted christ at uh, at uh during our college years, and a meeting with a gal from a campus crusade. And I mean they were meeting, meeting, meeting, meeting, I mean.
Speaker 3:And I never really, you know, presented the gospel to shauna to a way that you, you know, made an impact. I never really tried to be perfectly honest. And yet the gal finally said, shauna, why aren't you accepting Christ? And it was basically she felt she couldn't, she didn't understand. You know so much. And yet she was ready and she did accept and it's been a and God's been good.
Speaker 3:I mean, I talk about marriage counseling that we went to and I was too involved in my hunting and fishing and Shawna was second fiddle and I didn't treat her At camp. I tell the story that I got from marriage counseling and I'll just bring it up and I say it in a manner and I say it at the wrong time. It's typically a couple that you know they're goo-goo-eyed at each other and they're going to get married and all that. And I tell them the story that was told to me by my minister at the time and it was basically and I think the reason that they always get the wrong message out of this is because this message applied to me get the wrong message out of this because this message applied to me and but basically it was marrying.
Speaker 3:When you marry the gal, or when you're proposing to her you got to pay the father for this gal and it was at this island where the payment was in cows, and this gal she was tells this story anyways. This gal was only a five gal. She tells this story anyways. This gal was only a five gal, a cow gal, and you know she really wasn't that good looking and she couldn't cook, and you know they come from a bad side of the island and anyways, this missionary says well, I'd like to meet this gal and they've been married a number of years and anyways, this guy paid 10 cows.
Speaker 3:I mean 10 cows is unheard of, but he paid 10 cows for this gal, that's a trophy wife. Yeah, anyways, they introduced this wife to him and she's beautiful and the meal's just fantastic and you know, on and on. It's just, she's a phenomenal wife, the wife that's described in the Bible and the moral of the story. In applying to me, you know I'm pretty cheap, although when I was dating sean I did buy some pretty good gifts for but, anyways, I've told that story to a number of people and I think it really some.
Speaker 3:It really bothers that because you're paying for the wife or whatever, but you know it's treat the lady as and, quite frankly, brody, you've, throughout the years, coming down here compared to what I was raised with as far as how to treat a lady and how to honor them. You know that wasn't part of me. I, yeah, I didn't treat a lady very nice, not nice enough Not to elevate them. You know they might take advantage of you. Well, that was what the pastor was telling me then is you know, if you want her to be nice, you got to be nice and you got to um, and she ain't gonna, it ain't it ain't immediate either you'd be nice to him and and it's it's, it's, it's it's uh maintaining relationship.
Speaker 3:It's it's tough.
Speaker 1:It is. But being nice, being kind, right, just being kind and nice and good to your wife, right, just enriches her experience and your marriage. You know, um, I wish, I wish guys could could really understand that, yeah, yeah, because it'll change their lives, right, if you'll, just, if you'll just treat her as the. The moral of that story is, you know, we, we sit here and laugh and giggle about it, you know, but kilby and greg live in a culture where cows are currency. Okay, well, I can tell you, right, tell you right now, 10 cows. That's like buying your wife a $100,000 wedding ring. I mean, it's like much wealth. The point being, you know that Proverbs 31, who has found a woman, that's this highly treasured, you know. And he goes on and describes her. That's this highly treasured, you know, and he goes on and describes her. And, man, I feel like there's too much contention and rivalry in marriage often and that causes problems. That young man I was just talking about that's going through this divorce, him and his wife, they're just trying to get at each other. Who can win, you know? And if I will value that gift of marriage and value my wife, then right, uh, it was funny, juju said the other night at roy, which is red oak youth, at youth, on a few wednesdays ago I don't know if you knew this, but they, uh, because you got two of your grandkids right, roy and your daughter-in-law helps out, jenny helps out they did a thing around.
Speaker 1:It was around Valentine's. They did a thing where they had several couples, I think, come up and kind of share their story. Juju said, one of the wives said something like you know, everybody fights. You're in a marriage, you're going to fight and fuss. I think the point she was probably making was that's part of it. You got to learn how to get, get through those hard times, whatever.
Speaker 1:And juju said I was so confusing to me because I thought, well, what are you saying? Because she's never seen me in little fight and I, I've never thought for a minute. Let's don't let our kids see us fight. It's not even like let's fight behind closed doors. It's let's commit to just not do that. Let's commit that we're not going to fight. You're going to have conflict that you've got to work through, conflict that you got to work through. Um, but I, it was interesting to me that, uh, it was a perspective that I just I that evening. I just praise the Lord that. Here's my. Here's a 15 year old daughter that didn't have a concept for a husband and wife fighting and uh, and, and it just made me think, okay, you can commit to to to deal with things like conflict resolution, cause the other side of it is don't there are couples that don't fight because one person runs over the other one?
Speaker 3:right. The other one's a doormat. They never talk about things.
Speaker 1:They don't talk about things, they just shut their mouth and go on. You got to deal with conflict, you got to work through things and uh, but no, no, I appreciate, I appreciate you sharing that. I think that's highly valuable and uh, I just appreciate you and that, so you can remember and we'll close with this because I gotta pee so bad. But you, you can go back in your I mean, can you in your memory? You can remember vividly that bear being on top of you. Yes, and when you said that was going through your mind, you can remember it vividly. At one point it's clamped on your rib, if I remember it, bit on that lemonade jug.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Your backpack had sl lemonade jug.
Speaker 3:Yeah, your backpack is split up, yeah, I mean you ever see, like a dog fight, where they're just going at it and they're just so, they're not. I mean they're so quick. That's pretty much a bear attack. I mean it was over me and I mean it seemed to me it was over in seconds. I mean it seemed to me it was over in seconds.
Speaker 3:You know all five claws in my back. You could see the hole penetrate and I had, you know, holes in my chest cavity. From that I had the scratch marks in my chest in the front where it raked across me three different, yeah, three different passes and but those are just superficial other than one claw went in and maybe made a like a quarter inch cut, uh, into my flesh, um, but I had break, broken ribs. I had a total of five breaks involving three ribs, um, and then it tore into my, uh, my thigh and bit back there and ripped it open quite badly, um, but I mean it's over like quick. I mean they, they just uh, well and well, I walked up on a sow with cubs grizzly up in Alaska and I mean she ran off and as I tell this story to me, it just, you know, like the hair starts going up in the back of my neck and it just, I start getting a little. I get a little, you know nervous, and anyways, I also go down rabbit trails, if you haven't noticed.
Speaker 1:They're used to that. People that listen to this are very used to it. Oh man, how many times you heard me talk, Bruce. You know I'm a rabbit trail guy.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean the attack was over in. To me it seemed like seconds. It's probably not. I mean the other thing thing just had some training, uh, the other day at camp and it talked about, uh, adrenaline, how that kicks in on times of of high stress and and all the things that they they talked about man is like a dead, you know, a ringer. As far as the way it all played out, like time stands, still, well, it certainly did. Um, uh, attack felt like it was over in seconds. I think it was very quickly. Um, you know, was it field and stream?
Speaker 3:I think was a magazine, probably still is that had like almost like a cartoon character type thing or the strip of different scenes and anyways, you know, throughout the years I've read those and looked at those pictures and it you know what I got attacked by a bear and this is what I did and, and you know so, as a kid you see all these things and did. Is that why I reacted the way I did? I think so, because you have time to play it out as a kid of what would I do in this case. I mean, I played dead, but the bear really was helpful in making me play dead because the first hit it laid me off flat under the ground. I was on my belly, put my arms around my neck and my back of my neck and I had that. It was a huge backpack just chucked full of, like my. I had brain coat in there, I had some food and a big jug of lemonade. Anyways, the bears are known to go after the head and neck and it did. It didn't go after my head, thankfully. A lot of other people had their skin tore off of their skull. That wasn't the case with me, but it did go tore into that backpack and I think maybe that was pulled up over my head. That's speculation on my part, but it definitely tore into that.
Speaker 3:As I laid there, I had timed off you know, a certain amount of time just to lay, still Never heard her leave and I could hear the lemonade jug gurgling and it was like that wasn't really comforting as far as I didn't know what that was. It didn't sound good. Anyways, I gave time for the bear to leave. I got up, grabbed my bowl, grabbed a roll of toilet paper I don't know why and left my expensive rain gear there and then just proceeded to walk back towards camp which was about two miles, and yeah, I didn't know where the bears were at that time and she had ran off and let the cubs were staying there. So the cubs and they were pretty good-sized cubs which I was told if they would have gotten involved they're very playful after a year it wouldn't have turned out well at all if they got involved. So that's basically it. I mean, I had to walk back.
Speaker 1:But you walked two miles after that attack with all those injuries.
Speaker 3:My right leg would make a half a step. It's also God's provision in the fact that on the way there I mean I ran and jumped across this. It was like a deep flowing creek that I could be able to you know little run.
Speaker 3:I was able to hop right across it and I had hip boots on and uh blue jeans and that bear actually pinched on my calf and I got scars from that, just the pinch, but it never punctured. It punctured my uh, hip boots, but just the force of it actually caused scarring. Yeah, my right leg would make half a step. I still feel, you know, I know that I got attacked by a bear at certain days. I mean, I can feel it here and there, but God's been really good, it really hasn't slowed me down much.
Speaker 1:And the the the most powerful maybe thing, not the most, but one of one of the more powerful parts of that story is the Lord used it in your brother's life. Oh, no doubt I mean you had literally prayed and asked God right, but not, of course not prescribing a bear attack. But that got his attention more than any campsite fireside chat would have.
Speaker 3:Randy became my nurse. At that point I was in the tent. I got back to the tent, crawled back and I had my bow at the time. Anyways, I picked up my rifle that was at the camp or at the tent and fired three sets of three. And Randy had heard that and made its way back towards camp. Yeah, he thought he actually saw an angel or a guy that was dressed in like white camouflage. So, and Randy ain't like that and I I don't always tell people that part of the story because I mean it's like what did you see? I mean I remember him shooting at a stump once, thinking it was a duck.
Speaker 1:so but anyways, but this is I mean, but in who knows what the lord revealed to him. And right was that when he was coming to you, when he saw that, yeah, actually he's the way he says it is.
Speaker 3:He saw it and he, you know, you're up in alaska and and he decides not to even bother the other individual, so he turns and comes back towards camp. Now there was, there was five, uh, people camping quite a long ways away from where we were. Um, because, randy, he bandaged me up, you know, he could see into my chest cavity when I sat up. He kept all that me oblivious to it, because for the most part I thought I had some broken ribs because I couldn't really breathe very good. Um, but you know, and my, my goal was to get back to camp, you know. So one I, I sat down once and when I got back up I got dizzy and it was like nope, not doing that again.
Speaker 3:And I paced, just kept on, moving towards Camp Was and I had taken real good notes that morning, as far as you know, compass readings and all that First set of aspen trees that was in camp because we had set up by some trees, and then from there I could see the other ones and headed towards those and, sure enough, that was camp. Anyways, I fired the rifle and it wasn't too long, it seemed like Randy come and he had taken the raft across this river. It's real small for the most part and not flowing real hard. Anyways, I think he must've seen my feet sticking out of the tent. Anyways, he called did you fire your gun? And I said I got attacked by a bear and he didn't believe I was being truthful and anyways, he'd come over and it wasn't until he saw the blood on the screen of the tent that I did. And anyways, I'm laying on my back and my shirt and my, my coats torn open and and he could see that one scratch mark quarter of an inch deep under my chest, but you know it doesn't look that bad. Put a bandage on it, suck it up, buttercup.
Speaker 3:Anyways, he went, went and got a camera and he took a picture of that, which we both kind of think is kind of funny at this point. But because he didn't realize the severity of my condition, anyways, I had a hard time sitting up, so he got behind and pushed me up and then you could see the, the holes in my back and um and uh, he bandaged that up and then my leg I had to move, and then my leg I had to raise my leg up, and that was. As far as pain goes. That was probably the most severe pain. I got a charley horse at that time, but probably from the lack of blood. Anyways, he bandaged that up and there was a tendon that was moving in and out as I raised my leg. And there was a tendon that was moving in and out as I raised my leg. And out of his medical knowledge you know, he just cut that tendon off.
Speaker 1:Oh my God, oh my goodness, I did not see that coming. He cut your tendon?
Speaker 3:Yeah, he did, I don't know. He was thinking that it would cause infection. I don't know what the doctor said. No, that didn't hurt anything.
Speaker 1:It probably didn't feel good, though it probably didn't help in the moment.
Speaker 3:Wow. But yeah, he was being, I guess, a nurse slash doctor at the time and he bandaged me up there and he broke the camp like nobody's business, Got it all down into the raft and got me into a like I had more of a winter jacket, got me into that which was I was starting to get in the chills Up there it was getting cold, you know, in the evening, and anyways, he began to row the raft going upstream in the, in the little creek, and he was making good, you know, progress. But the problem was it was tag elders on the shoreline, both the sides of the sides of the creek, and every once in a while he'd hook his oar into one of those and, you know, lose momentum. He got up to a, up to a beaver dam that we both had gotten out the day before, and slid that raft over the top of it. I was, I guess, not in any mood, probably mood more so than anything, to get out of the raft at that point. Anyways, he got out and just busted that, made a hole in that dam where he was able to just pull the raft through. And anyways, he rode for six hours, got to the far end of Tutna Lake and you could see at the far end of that lake you know there was something there or something white. Anyways, he kept on rowing towards that and that turned out to be a tent and it was senior officials of Fish and Wildlife up there in Alaska and they had a radio that would make line of sight.
Speaker 3:They also had some medicine with codeine in it and I was definitely getting, you know, going into shock. I was starting to get the shakes and, uh, I'm, I'm sure that was, you know, very helpful as well. Um, they changed my bandages and, uh, they were like hitting each other, basically, uh, when one would say something, cause they were trying to keep it kind of oblivious as far as my condition goes and uh, they changed my bandage. They put me up on a in their cook tent, up on a, uh sheet of wood, and, uh, I spent the night there. And then in the morning well, they had made morning they were calling. What were they doing? No, they were looking for planes, because they had a radio that would make line of sight.
Speaker 2:And they ended up seeing a plane, you know, like a full-size like a passenger plane, you know, full-size commercial.
Speaker 3:But it might not have been, because we were pretty close to the Air Force base up there and it could have been, you know, an Air Force jet, good size.
Speaker 3:Anyways, they made contact with that first plane and then they I think they didn't give them the coordinates or they messed up on the coordinates, I don't know and the the second plane came across right behind the first one and they confirmed that you know they got the message and that you know they had all the right, uh, coordinates. Um, it was like an hour and hour, 15 minutes later, a plane come flying into Tutna Lake and there's a medical technician on board and he come walking up and checked me over real quickly and then the pilot was up there shortly after and he said we had to get going because there was fog coming in. And sure enough we just got off the lake. My brother said they were socked in, you know. After that, anyways, from there they took me to Clark Lake and then from there to switch planes to one that had wheels on it and then flew me right into Anchorage to the Columbia Hospital.
Speaker 1:How many days were you in the hospital?
Speaker 3:Yeah, it was close to a week.
Speaker 1:And then you still had some time left, yeah, so what'd you do?
Speaker 3:yeah, this is. I think it was three or four weeks of vacation. So we uh, rented a pickup truck with a camper on it and drove around the den alley highway, went fishing and my brother tried to take the fishing rod from me when I had a salmon on.
Speaker 1:He figured you owed Bruce, you owed the man that fish.
Speaker 3:I ended up catching two salmon. He didn't catch nothing and we ate those, oh man, and it was like it was a silver salmon, but at that time of the year they turned red. That was wonderful as far as the flavor of that meat. And then we went to Lake Louise and I think there's a whole bunch of lakes named Lake Louise and lake trout were coming into the shore and used a white rooster tail. Anyways, randy caught his two and then I was having a hard time and I ended up catching two. And then we took our pictures and there was a sign there saying you're only allowed one.
Speaker 3:You took your picture. We ate the evidence.
Speaker 1:It's gone, that's it, it and there's a statute of limitations. In case anybody from alaska dnr is listening to this oh boy that, the when he's so, the when he thought he might have seen an angel. That was when. That's what kept him from getting too far from yeah. That turned him back. That was when he was headed out to hunt. Y'all were going in opposite directions.
Speaker 3:Right, we told the wives we were going to hunt together and, of course, the first day we split up and covered twice as much ground and he saw what at the time he thought was a hunter or somebody in this place where there wouldn't have been.
Speaker 1:But it turned him back Right and because of that he was able to be in proximity, heard your gun, right gunshots yeah, well, and the impact that it had on him, I mean it, just it, it shook him up.
Speaker 3:Um, when they flew me out then the dnr landed their fish and wildlife landed, landed. It's funny because all the guys that were there at that camp were senior fish in the wild. But this game warden shows up and it's given Randy kind of the third degree. Well, what he was trying to assess is if he had a problem bear, and I'm sure there's a routine that they have to ask, and he was doing his job from my brother's vantage point. His brother had just got attacked by a bear and, uh, I mean, he's the one that cleaned the blood out of my the tent and, you know, did whatever he could on my sleeping bag. I still have that sleeping bag. Blood, by the way, has a way of deteriorating your fabric, but anyways, um, and he paddled you six hours.
Speaker 3:Yes, yes with. He said, my eyes are rolling up in the top of my head. I was looking over my head at him, I think it was, but any, you know I'm I was looking backwards, right, him Right, right. But yeah, what's going through his head is he's, you know, potentially losing his brother, and he's got to do it's all on him at that point, you know, because I'm not really doing much. And so, yeah, he's interviewed by the game warden and he wants to know how his brother is, and the game warden doesn't have a clue as far as my condition, um, and randy probably wasn't in the best mood from that standpoint either, um, but yeah, and then he's, it wasn't until our outfitter flew back on that lake and picked him up and brought him back, um, and we uh knew people who knew, people that actually you know, gave him a place to stay while he was there.
Speaker 3:But, yeah, it really made an impact on him and years later, hunting up at my cabin, I preached at him and preached at him as far as you know. Hey, you need to start going to church again. Amazing how doors get opened. He's now on track. He's committed to the Lord, wow.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it goes back to that Job story. It's the Lord using suffering to, I think, cs Lewis.
Speaker 3:I Lord, using suffering to Right. Yes, I think.
Speaker 1:CS Lewis. I'm sure you've read some of him. I don't remember. He wrote two books on pain. A Grief Observed was the one that he wrote later in life after he had gone through losing his wife.
Speaker 3:Okay.
Speaker 1:And he wrote an early book I believe it's called the Problem of Pain, maybe. And he wrote an early book I believe it's called the problem of pain, maybe and and uh, he wrote that second book, almost to say I didn't know what I was talking about. Now I've been through it. Now I've gone through pain and suffering and hardship, and so it's a grief observed, and but he I think I think it was CS Lewis in that book that said pain is God's megaphone. Suffering and trauma and trial and tribulation that's what the Lord uses to get our attention, and he does.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, thankfully he does.
Speaker 1:And he answered your prayer. He got a hold of Randy he got a hold of me he got a hold of you. Something else got a hold of you too, big old Sal Grizzly so did they ever find that bear?
Speaker 3:No, I don't think they ever. It wasn't like that game-ordinating bear no.
Speaker 1:She just reacted because of her cubs.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and he wanted to know if I shot at her.
Speaker 1:Oh, okay.
Speaker 3:I mean, that was the big thing Okay.
Speaker 1:Yeah, okay, well, thank you. I mean I know, you know it's, it's. I'm very mindful. I think I mentioned this the first time we talked, but I'll never forget I hardly knew you at the time and Brandon had told me that you'd been, you'd survived a bear attack and I asked you about it over, we're eating lunch or something. And I asked you the same way you tell just boys tell stories, hunting stories, you know and your response made it clear to me oh, it's not just a story I flippantly throw out around lunch, this is a, this is something God used in my life. That it's a, it's a part of my story, the fabric of my testimony. And so I took a step back and thought, okay, that makes sense, and so I.
Speaker 1:Anytime I bring it up, I'm always very careful to to make sure folks know this is not just a fun adventure story, it is that. It's a phenomenal adventure story and a story of survival and it is all those things. But more importantly, it's a part of your gospel story, right? I'm just grateful that you'd share it. I think it inspires people and it's and there's somebody that's going to listen to this, that's going through their own season or period of hardship and suffering and and encouragement would be. The lord will use that in your life and in others. Right, well, thank you all. Right, so, uh, that wraps up our time, uh, with bruce. Uh, man, what a story and what a what a what a life lived to surrender to the Lord at a later stage in life, to truly surrender and then let the Lord take over the course and trajectory of your life. It's inspiring and it's encouragement.
Speaker 1:My prayer and hope is that men would be challenged to lead their families and invest in their grandchildren's lives and to leave a legacy of faithfulness and godliness. I don't think Bruce's grandkids will fully appreciate I know for me I can say this of my granddad I miss him now and I appreciate things about him now that maybe I didn't fully appreciate when he was here and I think years from now, in adulthood, particularly Bruce's grandkids will appreciate the investment he's made in this family and and uh, and I and I hope you'll be inspired, I know I am it's, it's it's got me thinking about the things that I need to do to leave a godly legacy behind, not just in in the example that I strive to set with my life, but writing to and investing in my grandchildren, my children, and leaving them a tangible spiritual investment, and so I hope you're encouraged to do that in your own life and hope that you get to meet Bruce and Shauna when you're here. Come see us at SWO. They'll be here until April.
Speaker 1:If you're a man that hasn't already signed up, we've got a few spots left for our Spring Be Strong conference coming up here in a couple weeks, so come on and join us, and I know you'll be blessed by it. Thanks, and I hope you all have an awesome week.
Speaker 2:Thanks for listening to. No Sanity Required. Please take a moment to subscribe and leave a rating. It really helps. Visit us at sw outfitterscom to see all of our programming and resources and we'll see you next week on no sanity required.
