No Sanity Required
No Sanity Required is a weekly podcast hosted by Brody Holloway and Snowbird Outfitters. Each week, we engage culture and personal stories with a Gospel-driven perspective. Our mission is to equip the Church to pierce the darkness with the light of Christ by sharing the vision, ideas, and passions God has used to carry us through 26 years of student ministry. Find more content at swoutfitters.com.
No Sanity Required
Resisting and Redefining "Love is Love" According to Scripture
What does “Love is Love” mean? Where does love come from? How do we answer these questions?
In Part Two of their discussion, Brody and Jon dive deeper into what “Love is Love” truly means from a biblical worldview. They take time to encourage parents who are facing the scary reality of raising children to resist the social norms of this post-Christian world. Let’s listen to how we can refocus our attention back on Scripture when addressing issues like biblical sexuality, politics, and culture.
1 John 4:7-12
Love is Love SWO24 Breakout
Gender & The Bible SWO23
"Anxious Generation" by Dr. Jonathan Haidt
Nancy Pearcey Books
Jon & Brody's Emails
Please leave a review on Apple or Spotify to help improve No Sanity Required and help others grow in their faith.
Click here to get our Colossians Bible study.
Hey y'all, if you're listening to that last episode, you probably thought that it ended kind of abruptly. Well, it's because we just cut it off to make a part one and part two. It was a lot. John and I talked for a long time and we felt like it was more. I know a lot of people are used to listening to three hour podcasts. We don't do three hour podcast episodes. We try to keep it in that 45 minute minute range, really anywhere half hour to an hour, averaging around 45 minutes. That's the feedback we've gotten is that that's good for trips to you know the commute to work, or you know it's. It's just an easier amount to handle. So we're going to follow up with a part two.
Speaker 1:John and I did continue that conversation. We want to bring that to you today and so I hope that. Uh, you enjoyed. If you're listening to this and you didn't hear the last episode, you're fine, just keep on listening and then, if it's interesting to you, go back and listen to the first half of this. We'd like to hear any feedback we could get from folks I'm going to be sharing in the next episode either the next episode or the one after that. We'll be sharing with ideas, lots of good recommendations and suggestions and requests from folks. We're trying to tackle some of that content. So we're outlining some of it now, doing some writing and excited to get into some of this. It's some stuff that I'm excited to share with you, but it means a lot that you're listening, you care to hear what we've got to say. So welcome to no Sanity Required.
Speaker 2:Welcome to no Sanity Required from the Ministry of Snowbird Wilderness Outfitters. A podcast about the Bible, culture and stories from around the globe.
Speaker 1:One thing I want to add about you know, finding good content. Something I really enjoy and appreciate is listening to guys that I know personally. I mentioned Jeff Martin previously and next week we've got a group. Actually, as this drops, it will have been last week, but as I'm recording it's this week, but we anyway we've got a group, a group coming in Christian school from just below Atlanta and the guy that kind of oversees that middle school, he's the principal of the middle school. He's a pastor and a church planner in Sonoya, georgia.
Speaker 1:Sovereign Hope is the name of the church. Guy's name's Adam Vinson. I love his teaching and preaching and there's a like-mindedness there. And what I love about listening to a guy like Adam or a guy like Jeff, who I mentioned earlier, besides the fact that I know where they line up theologically. There may be some areas we disagree, but I know his heart and character and I know him personally. So first I would recommend you go on and listen to these guys that I'm whose names I'm saying you've probably never heard of them, but you should, and they're phenomenal. But then the other thing is find guys that you trust and that you can get to know if you, if it's possible to build a relationship of any sort with a guy, then then you've got an appreciation for his humanity. You know, I feel like too many guys that are in that celebrity pastor status. They're just out of reach and they they almost seem unreal and they like it that way. But anyway, I just wanted to.
Speaker 1:Before we get into this second part of this conversation, I wanted to intro with that. It's just to say I think that if you, if you will be creative and just look around there's some local guys maybe, or some guys you know, or you know a guy that knows a guy you have to find the big famous celebrity influencers who are also pastors. Those guys sometimes are not the best guys to pay attention to. That's why I said in that last episode listen to old dead guys, read old dead guys. But anyway, adam Vinson and Jeff Martin are two guys that I listen to. There's a handful of other guys, but Jonathan Revis is on the board of directors at SWO I listen to. There's a handful of other guys, but Jonathan Revis is on the board of directors at SWO. I listen to his sermons. I can name names. There's a lot of guys that come to SWO that I like to listen to. So anyway, just you get the point Find good content, guys that are faithful, that are Bible guys, and pay attention, pay attention to what they have to say.
Speaker 1:The other thing I want to say by way of intro, before we get into this, is I had someone reach out to me who I have a lot of confidence in and a lot of favor with and who I have a personal relationship with. It's a missionary couple, missionary family, and they had raised some concerns over the fact that John mentioned John Mark Comer in that last episode. Keep in mind we're not endorsing people, you know. I just want to remind you that there, that there, you do your own work and I know that we need to be careful because people take what we say and kind of run with it. But you know, there are guys that I trust, like a John Piper who's been faithful.
Speaker 1:But, john Piper, there are things that I disagree with and you know, like some of John Piper's politics I don't agree with. And even then, theologically, john Piper is a pacifist. I would call him a pacifist because I remember him being interviewed one time about he doesn't have a gun in his house and you know he was asked about self-defense and he said well, I wouldn't want to take someone's life, I'd leave that in the hands of God and his sovereignty. And somebody said what if your wife or daughter were going to be harmed? And he said I would just trust the Lord. Well, I do not agree with that in any facet. I mean, I think that man knows so much more about the Bible than me, but it's like what about the creation mandate where God told Adam to protect and guard the garden and to take dominion? It's like there's going to be times where you just disagree, even with people that you highly respect and trust. So keep that in mind too, as you're, as you're, listening to this and thinking about who you might listen to and read. Um, so, anyway, let's uh, let's get into the second part of this conversation. Thank you so much for joining us. All, right, we're going to shift directions here and keep this conversation going.
Speaker 1:With John Rouleau, I want to talk a little bit about the Southern Baptist as a for lack of a better term denomination. You talk to Southern Baptist guys and they'll say well, we're not a denomination, we're a convention. Okay, whatever, it's SBC, southern Baptist Convention, and I guess the way a convention works is each church is autonomous. There's a sense to Southern Baptistness where, as a church, you can be your own. You do what you want to do. Now that only goes so far because a couple of years ago at their annual convention, they booted some churches out because they're embracing LGBTQ ideology. So they got disbarred or dismembered or whatever from the convention. But it's not like if you're a Presbyterian Church of America, you're part of a diocese or whatever they call it, like a network of churches that works a little differently For our churches that are Southern Baptist.
Speaker 1:Forgive me for the part of this that I get wrong, but I want to give a quick three-minute overview of the history of how we've gotten to where we are right now with the Southern Baptist world. I will hear people say to me oh, that church, they're Southern Baptist. And then they'll describe a fundamental ideology independent, fundamental. Like the women have to wear dresses, you can't listen to music, you can't go to movies. Southern Baptists are not like that. That's not a denomination that prohibits women from wearing pants and that is typically independent, fundamental, baptist.
Speaker 1:I've just had a few conversations recently where people have brought up Southern Baptists as a denomination or church, where I realized I don't think they understand what the Southern Baptist churches really think and represent, and part of that is because within the Southern Baptist denomination there is an enormous range of diversity within worship styles, what Sunday morning looks like, how people dress for church. It's probably the most diverse denomination and I'm not talking about ethnic diversity, I'm talking about you go to First Baptist Church in one city and everybody's, you know the men are wearing ties, the women are dressed nice. It's a very formal. You know the men are wearing ties, the women are dressed nice. It's a very formal, traditional church service. And then you go to one where people show up in flip-flops and shorts what 30 years ago you would have thought was a Calvary Chapel or non-denominational contemporary type church.
Speaker 1:So in the last part of the 20th century the Southern Baptist denomination had grown, you know it had gotten to the point where it was the largest evangelical denomination in North America and there had been this sort of push out of Reformed churches and pastors. So churches that held to Reformed soteriology or theology had gotten sort of pushed to the margins of the Southern Baptist denomination. And so what was then primarily controlling the Southern Baptist denomination was non-reformed churches. That I wouldn't say. They were Armenian and I'm not going to define and describe terms here, but I wouldn't say they were Armenian. They rejected any aspect or facet of reformed theology and in the 80s there was a massive uprising of what at that time was liberal and moderate theology and orthopraxy or the practices of the church. And so you had churches.
Speaker 1:The primary battleground for Southern Baptist churches in the 80s was on the inerrancy and the authority of Scripture, so a lot similar to what we've seen in the United Methodist Church in the last five years. So in the 80s there was this big surge of churches in the Southern Baptist circle that was saying they were rejecting things like the virgin birth or the authority of scripture, the infallibility of scripture, the inerrancy of scripture. They were saying the Bible is not, can't be trusted. It's pretty trustworthy but we can't say it's without error. And so there was a big division within the church and in the late 80s and early 90s, the way that the conservative side or the historically orthodox side sort of took power back and gained the seat at the head of the table and eventually this led to pushing those liberal churches out of the convention. Many went and formed their own networks, like in North Carolina. They formed their own Baptist association, where they left the Southern Baptists of the state of North Carolina and formed their own association. Same thing happened in Virginia. You end up with two Southern Baptist denominations. One goes their own way. Well, one of the things that helped the conservative side win the day was they went back and they recruited those marginalized reformed guys, because they realized what you were saying in the last segment, which was hey, we're really on the same team.
Speaker 1:We both believe in the authority of scripture. We just interpret a few things differently. What does predestination mean? What does election mean? What do we do with the five points of in the authority of Scripture? We just interpret a few things differently. What does predestination mean? What does election mean? What do we do with the five points of Calvinism, things like that? What do we do with end times teaching? But when it comes to salvation is in Christ alone, by faith alone, grace alone. We agree with that. We believe that the Scripture is breathed out by God and it's profitable and it's perfect in the way that God delivered it to us.
Speaker 1:It's inspired of the Holy Spirit, and so they sort of reconnected and this is known in a lot of circles as the resurgence. There was a resurgence of so the conservative side of Southern Baptists that had a voice were 95% non-reformed. But then when this happened and there was this big battle in the late 80s and early 90s, they brought the reformed churches back sort of into the conversation and they were able to reestablish conservative Orthodox Christian denomination and push those liberal churches out which was a good thing.
Speaker 1:Well, now the water settles, the dust settles and we've got a denomination now that used to be 95% non-reformed and now it's 40% reformed or whatever it was, and I think then it was probably 20% to 30%, whatever. And we saw Al Mohler during this time be named as the president of Southern, the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary in Louisville, kentucky, which had gone to the liberal side. Southeastern, in Wake Forest, north Carolina, had gone to the liberal side. They named a guy named Paige Patterson as their president. Southern named a guy named Albert Moeller as their president. Southern became the reformed seminary, southeastern became the non-reformed seminary, both conservative and those guys were buddies or friends yes, good co-workers.
Speaker 3:That's a great that right, there is a great synopsis okay so then we ended up.
Speaker 1:What we've seen going back to from from the mid-90s till now is the reformed side has gotten stronger and stronger and stronger, numerically and influentially. So Patterson is out at Wake Forest not in a bad way, but he's gone. They bring in a guy named Daniel Aiken. Danny Aiken becomes the president of Southeastern. Well, guess what? Danny Aiken's reformed James Dew. Jamie Dew is now the president at New Orleans Baptist Theological Seminary. Well, guess what? Jamie Dew's reformed.
Speaker 1:And so you end up with out of the key influential seminaries in Southern Baptist circles. Most of the leadership in those seminaries are guys that lean, reformed, but they're not like staunch, diehard Calvinists Right, they're just, they're reformed guys, but they're not like staunch, diehard Calvinists, right, right, they're just, they're reformed guys. And so, like, what it's brought with it is we agree on the things we agree on and we can disagree on some things, but we're on mission together, sure. So when you talk to a guy that came out of Southeastern under Paige Patterson and he's not a reformed guy, and you talk to a guy that's just come out of there and he is a Reformed guy, they can work together. And some of the things that have helped network and strengthen those partnerships are international missions, international Mission Board of the Southern Baptists. The other thing that I think has helped is a massive movement of church planting and church revitalization. Churches that were dying have been revitalized and churches in areas where there weren't churches. There have been church planting movements that have taken root. One of the board members at snowbird is a guy named michael talley. He's a church planner with southern baptist in denver, colorado, in a super progressive liberal bedroom community, thornton, colorado, which is right outside of denver. Perfect example of somebody. Mike talley is a guy who's's? He's not Calvinistic I don't think. I don't think, but he's not Armenian. He's probably going to lean Reformed in some areas. And so what happens is you go to Mike Talley's church.
Speaker 1:I'm going to be preaching there next month and I'm excited because you go in there and folks are. It's got a contemporary feel. It would almost feel like a Calvary Chapel service of the 1990s or an Acts 29. People are going to be wearing casual clothing. It's got a coffeehouse feel. The worship is going to have a more modern, contemporary feel, not Hillsong rocking out with an awesome drummer and electric guitar solos, but not a pipe organ and a pianist and a guy in a suit leading a choir. It's going to have a simpler, modern feel with a blend of hymns and modern contemporary worship, and so what I love about the direction at the Southern Baptist now this is a very, this is a.
Speaker 1:For some people would some Southern Baptists would say this is way oversimplification of what's going on. But we end up with churches that are faithful in their exposition because the new movement since the mid-90s and the resurgence has created a high level of accountability for how the Word of God is taught. So you've got pastors and teachers and churches that are expositional in their preaching. They hold a high view of scripture, they see the word of God. So back to what you were saying in the last segment, they love the Bible.
Speaker 1:Yes, they preach the Bible. They teach the Bible at every level in their youth, in their Sunday morning worship, in their discipleship programs and processes, and so I just wanted to talk about that a little bit, to say the Southern Baptist Church right now, I think, is moving in the right direction. They're not perfect. There was a big scandal a few years ago where it came out that a lot of people had covered up like sexual scandals or abuse situations. Nobody's perfect, no denomination is perfect. The church still has its issues that it's working through, but in terms of theological integrity and then the way we're planting churches and doing missions and reaching the world and educating and training pastors, I think they're doing some things right.
Speaker 3:Yep.
Speaker 1:I wanted to. Just I wanted to say that because people will often say what denomination are y'all? And I'll say, well, we're, we're sort of interdenominational. And then I also hear people misidentify what they think Southern Baptists are. Yes, and I would say we lean most closely to. If you were going to brand us with a denomination, it would be Southern Baptists.
Speaker 3:And I think some of the branding is anything that's being labeled a conservative in America right now because of our political culture is automatically identified as something extreme, far right. You know, in any sense of the word. You know what I mean. It's like you see those memes on social media where it's like I think Elon Musk was somebody that posted on there because you know he's advocating for free speech and he's being labeled as a far right extremist. You know, even though if you dug down in his political beliefs, he, you know, he's not even conservative. You know what I mean. So I think there there's, there's that in our overall cultural context that there's this automatic labeling of anything that's conservative is extreme, far right, and so you're like, oh, southern Baptist, you know they're like. You said it's. You take the most extreme, you know picture of what that looks like in a, in a, you know, independent fundamental Bible Baptist church maybe, and that's what you would. That's what they all are. You know, and I think that's just in general, if you're conservative on anything in our culture today, it's like, oh well, you must be the extreme, far right, that's right. You know, and I think you know it's.
Speaker 3:It's been honestly super encouraging for me, you know, when I went to seminary I think the best way I could describe it is maybe we didn't have a um I hate to use this word, but I'm just going to say maybe we didn't have a common enemy, somebody that was attacking us denominationally or, you know, coming against, you know, the Orthodox beliefs of, you know of Christianity. So you know, in those seasons we're arguing with each other. You know, we're Bible guys, we're theology guys, we study it, we study the scriptures. Most of us, you know, hold strong to our beliefs. And so I remember, in seminary, those debates that would go for hours and hours between, you know, the Calvinists and the Armenians, and it would just go back and forth and I'd be like, okay, I'm out of here. You know, I'm like this is not interesting to me anymore, or whatever. You know what I mean. This is not interesting to me anymore, or whatever. You know what I mean. You know, and I think where our culture has moved is our culture moves further and further away from Christianity.
Speaker 3:As we move into a post-Christian America, we're recognizing, hey, like this is not our fight. Our fight is to continue to reach people for the gospel. You know, our fight is to disciple people into the scriptures, teach them how to walk with Jesus, and in the midst of that, yes, there might be individuals that have a bent or leaning, you know, on these, you know a different way as far as the non-essentials to the faith, but that's okay, you know, let's talk about where we can be on the same page. Talk about where we can be on the same page and, you know, I think we always try to have gotcha moments and I think people have always tried to have, you know, gotcha moments for the Southern Baptist. But it's a blessing in the sense that, yes, these are independent churches that come together, for you know the Baptist convention.
Speaker 3:But you know, therefore, that means if the president is scandalous, it doesn't mean that all the churches it's not connected in that way, you know. And so they say, oh, we'll see this one church over here. Or you know, we have a list of, you know, of 20 pastors or 50 pastors that have all had sexual abuse scandals, which is terrible. But you can also say, that doesn't represent our whole denomination. I can send you a thousand other pastors that you don't even know about that are faithful. It's the same thing.
Speaker 3:Where it's like well, hey, let's look at the public school report and all these individuals that have committed sexual crimes that are teachers. Does that mean every single teacher you know commit sexual crimes? I mean you know the shoe can fit both ways. You know what I mean, and so I think that's you know, being able to be semi-autonomous. But what has unified the Southern Baptist Church is a set of common beliefs, right, and so even with the IMB, like the Baptist Faith and Message and again, I'm oversimplifying it too, because I know there's been some controversies over the years but in general, there's a set of Orthodox beliefs that we say, hey, this is what we believe as a church and this is how we're going to continue to move forward.
Speaker 1:Yes, and that most modern edition of the Baptist Faith and Message I think is year 2000, is when it was revised or whatever. And that's coming right out of that resurgence movement. And when you read through the Baptist Faith and Message you're like, oh yeah, I believe all this, I hold to all this, and then, within that, there's room to disagree on some things. And so that leads me into the thing that I really want to get into here, which is, as we talk about, one of the things that Southern Baptists are heavily ridiculed for by the world and by the left and by woke denominations or church movements, is our orthodox view of gender and sexuality, love and marriage. And I'd like to transition to something that you talked about this past summer in that friday breakout that we alluded to earlier, which is, I think, the breakout was called love is love love is love.
Speaker 3:Did that on?
Speaker 1:purpose yep, and and first off, where's that? You didn't come up with that saying?
Speaker 3:no yeah.
Speaker 1:So for somebody that's maybe not familiar with that, let's just jump in right there and then could you, could you talk about that phrase love is love and then, before we get into it, give sort of an overview, if you were going to give somebody a summary, you know, minute, two minutes, three minutes, whatever summary of what that breakout is, um, cause, that breakout is actually posted and then go listen to it. That, that, that sermon that you did, they, that sermon that you did, people can go listen to it on the Snowbird Teaching Podcast. We'll link that, jb, I'll have that linked. But what is love is love? What does that phrase mean? What's the overview of the podcast or that sermon?
Speaker 3:Yeah. So you know I intentionally wanted to choose that phrase because that phrase has been the mantra for the LGBTQ movement and you'll see it, you know, posted on yard signs, on walls. That phrase has been the mantra for the LGBTQ movement and you'll see it, you know, posted on yard signs, on walls. You know you see it in commercials Love is love. And you know the reason I wanted to use that statement is because I know every student that's coming in here either has heard that or will hear that, and we'll see that. And I wanted to start there because, you know, as we move from a Christian nation to a post-Christian cultural world, what is happening is it's an attempt to redefine language Because, whether somebody believes in Christianity or not, at the root in our culture, our definitions because we come from a Christian world, have really been rooted in, you know, christian worldview. And so, in an attempt to redefine or, as a lot of the queer theorist, an attempt to undefine certain words, love is love is a statement that has been broadcasted. Well, just by nature of definition, you can't define a word using the same word, but that's intentional, right. Love is love and I you know, if you ask a hundred people, what does that mean? They might give you a hundred different answers, because what that statement is allowing individuals to do is to define the term themselves. So love is. Love is a statement to say whatever I decide, love is. That's what I'm going to label it as. So if I feel sexually attracted to any individual, any gender, you know any age gender, you know any age, whatever it may be an innate object, you know. If I have whatever, I decide and determine what love is, whether it's a feeling or I can redefine it. And so I titled that breakout specifically to draw interest, you know, to kind of say okay, you know. And I wanted to start there with a definition of terms because I think a lot of times in a culture, in a younger generation we have to remember, in my opinion I don't think the broader culture no longer views Christianity or the Bible as an authority, or the Bible as an authority, and so we love to exegete the scriptures. Well, 10 years ago there was still a respect, and I'm not saying it's completely gone, but there was, I'd say 20 years ago, across the nation there was a respect for the scriptures, whether it was authoritative or not. But that has moved further and further away, to where you can't just ex, you know, exegete the past and say, well, here's what the Bible says, and expect the students to be like, oh okay, well, yeah, now I think the deeper questions that they're asking are okay.
Speaker 3:Well, why does that matter to me? Sure, I, you know. You even explained the Bible. I see that the Bible says that. But this author, my professor, this, you know, this statement, this TikTok person, they've all said the opposite. You know so why. You know why should I believe what the scriptures say? Right, yeah.
Speaker 3:And so I think you know I wanted to start off with the love is love because I wanted to get to a worldview conversation of you know why is our definition of love more important, more right, I should say, than a random professor, than a politician, than who gets to determine what the definition of a word is right. If all of the cultures say this is how it's defined, where do they get that definition and why is that definition right? And if you are going to stand firm on what we believe is a biblical definition of love, why is that right? Does that make sense?
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:I got reminded the last week of camp of just how deep this has already taken root.
Speaker 1:It was a group of students that I was talking to in the Super Coupe and they were talking about what a great week they've had at camp and it wasn't a real serious conversation, it was more like five or six people talking and I don't remember what brought it up. But one of the girls said well, but that's his gender, and gender and sex aren't the same thing. And this is on Friday evening at camp. She just sat through your breakout. She had heard that talk, that message, she had heard us and then everything else she's saying. You would have thought this kid loves the Lord, is faithful to Scripture, has had an amazing week. And I realized this is so deeply rooted that she probably doesn't even realize what she's saying, because everything else she said in that conversation, you would have thought she was solid. And then she said well, he says he's a girl, but that's his gender and that's not really the same thing as biological sex or whatever. He's a girl, but that's his gender and that's not really the same thing as biological sex or whatever. And I just thought, man, we have to keep pressing into this. Yes, Because they're going to have to hear it over and over and over, because they're being brainwashed by the world.
Speaker 1:Isn't it interesting that I don't want to get into politics right now. We'll do that later. Now, we'll do that later. But isn't it interesting that they're already touting uh, kamala harris, as she would be the first woman president. It's the same group that will not define the question that matt walsh was asking what is a woman? Yes, what is a woman? I don't know, but she's gonna be the first woman president. But wait, you guys said that there's not a definition of what a woman is. It's so contradictory, it's like almost comical. I think that I want people to know that the content that we're going to continually to continue to put out and the things we're going to say to students is that we're going to teach what the Bible says, period.
Speaker 3:Yes.
Speaker 1:Because we hold scripture in such authority.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, and I think that's, you know, a part of even. You know, this summer, like last summer, I did addressing LGBTQ issues. But really what we were attempting to address at a broader level is where does terms get to? You know who gets to define the terms? Because in addressing, you know, I even had one of our summer staff come up to me and say, man, I'm so grateful because originally, when I saw that title, I thought you were just going to, in a sense, attack the LGBTQ community.
Speaker 3:You know what I mean and what the attempt was is what we would like to do is we would like to draw your attentions to the scriptures. We would like to show you where the definition of love comes from, why that matters, why we hold firm to biblical sexuality, you know, and why we believe that that's what's best for your life and for all human life. And so let's just start there, right. And so, you know, I decided to use the passage in 1 John, 1 John 4, 7 through 12, you know, and then just walk. I literally just walked through that passage and tried to talk through, you know, an overview of kind of a Christian worldview point of what love is. And then, in the midst of that, some of these other more specific issues were addressed. That makes sense.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so good, and folks will be able to go and listen to it and we'd love to hear if people have questions. Please reach out. You can reach out to me. You can email us here at the podcast. What's the best way people can email you?
Speaker 3:John R J-O-N. Johnr at swoutfitterscom.
Speaker 1:John J-O-Nn john r at sw outfitterscom. John j-o-n. John r at sw outfitterscom. So we're going to link that um teaching podcast, that teaching, that session from the snowbird teaching podcast. We'll link it in the show notes here. Jb will link it and if you got any questions, john would love to hear from you answer those questions. It it is an amazing talk. We'll go ahead and link that one from last year too, the one last year 2023, I think you did it on Thursday morning, maybe I feel like it was earlier in the week, but it walked through.
Speaker 1:I think it's a really effective one-two combination because it walked through how we got to where we're at in terms of worldview. Yes, you walked through the different stages and phases in history yes, modernity, post-modernity, post-post-modernity, yes, progressivism you kind of walked through all that and the questions that were asked and the challenges that were laid down, and so we kind of arrived at well, here's where we are and here's what it's got us and the challenges that were laid down. And so we kind of arrived at well, here's where we are and here's what it's got us. Yes, and then this time it's more etymology. Yes, what gives a word its authority and its definition? And I think it's a. Really, if people will listen to this, to these two teaching sessions, it'll help them, because a lot of people do you find that? A lot of people are kind of going how do we get here? Yes, what do we? How do I even answer this? Yes, that's what you do a good job of in these two sessions.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and because you know, what I tried to do last year was I tried to help people understand. You know, I firmly believe that where we are culturally, we're in a postmodern world and what that? What that means is that's a, that's a real philosophical attack on objective truth. And so, therefore, when there is no objective truth, and all truth is relative, the dominant group can determine what is true.
Speaker 3:Today, the LGBTQ activism movement is redefining sexuality, because they're the dominant group as far as maybe cultural presence, social media presence, social acceptance, and so voice. So they get to define the term, because there is no value for what is objectively true in a postmodern culture, for what is objectively true in a postmodern culture. And so I try to explain how we went from pre-modern to modern, which was more of secular, humanistic, more of that scientific humanism where 40 years ago, 20 years ago, science was really our God and it was about data and it was about you know what you and these other individuals who are pointing to evolutionary biology and saying no, biology is our king, is our God, right and so. But transgenderism doesn't fit into these biological parameters. But the postmodern queer theorists say that's just oppressive. And so, for the first time, you know, these evolutionary biologists, you know, are being labeled oppressive when they're like we're just. We're just science and data, we have no opinion. We have no opinion, we have no religious um most of them are atheists or agnostic yeah, we're atheists, you know.
Speaker 3:We're not even in this religious and in the in the, you know the, the queer theory, post-modernists is like we don't have a religion either, even though I would argue that this is their religion.
Speaker 1:I believe that 100% this is a demonic, this is a religious, it's a religion of idolatry yes, it's idolatry of gender, sexuality, abortion, matriarchy.
Speaker 3:Well, this goes back to what we we, I think we've discussed on this podcast, maybe a couple years ago, where I made a statement I said all culture is religious. No matter what culture you go to on the planet, if that culture is 100 atheist, they are still religious in nature because, going back to what we believe, all humans were created in the image of God and they were created for their creator. You were created for a relationship with God. If you don't have that relation of God, you will substitute that with something you were created to worship. And so that's what we're experiencing, as our culture is saying okay, you know, we started to reject Christianity, the ideas of Christianity, the culture of Christianity, and so we kind of substituted it. We didn't fully let it go, but we kind of embraced this secular, humanistic, evolutionary model and it was all about science and data. But as technology has kind of caught up, as as the world has continued to, you know, catch up, and that model is collapsing, you know the data is not proving, proving true, you know well, they don't want to go back to the old Christian worldview. And so now we're in this postmodern world where, you know, it's kind of uh, um, there's no objective truths and it's and you know, it's why we it's high on feelings and it's what do you feel? And um and so so, so the I think those two talks kind of blend together, because I do kind of set up hey, this is how you know philosophically where our culture has moved to and this is how we've gotten here.
Speaker 3:And so a part of the love is love conversation. I wanted to address an audience that's being told that there is no definition for love, that you can make that up. And one of the first points you know in that passage of scripture, you know I take them to John, chapter four. You know what I mean, because it says beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God and whoever loves has been born of God and knows God. And anyone who does not love does not know God, because God is love. And so one of the first points that I talk about and I try to address from a non-Christian perspective, you know, I ask the question where does love come from? Right, because if we're going to talk about definitions, who gets to define what love is? You know, the question that all humanity is asking is okay, well, where does it come from? Why do humans have this obsession with love? Why do we write books and stories and songs and all you know, and? But at the same time, if we're going to redefine it, why is it when you're a 13 year old kid and your parents get divorced or your mom comes home and says I'm, I'm leaving my dad, something inside of your soul, whether you're a Christian or not, says something's not right?
Speaker 3:You know and I give this this kind of funny, cheesy illustration of my wife's family had a dog. His name was Winston. He was this little, he was a mutt and he had the short, tiny legs, but he was. He also had some pit bull in him. So you would, you would hear him and he'd be like you know, and he'd be like dude, that's a big dog. You come around the corner, you see this stubby, short leg dog and you're like what is it? And he'd make you laugh or whatever. But you know his name was Winston, so you know he's.
Speaker 3:My parents live on the side of a mountain. It's beautiful. They don't have a fence, they just open the door. Winston goes and he would just roam the mountains. They said call him Winston the Mountain Dog. Well, winston would go all up and down the mountains. And well, winston would get all the neighborhood dogs pregnant. The reason, you would know, dirty, dirty, dirty Winston, he would go. But the reason you know that is because they'd have a litter of puppies and they'd all come out with these short legs and you'd be like Winston Dirty dog, you know. And so it became a thing where you know they gave him a nickname and they called him Pimpston. So instead of Winston the Mountain Dog they called him Pimpston. You know of Winston the mountain dog, they called him Pimpston.
Speaker 3:You know, and and I kind of gave that illustration and the kids are laughing and it and it's funny.
Speaker 3:But then immediately I switched and I say, okay, that's really funny because Winston, winston's a dog.
Speaker 3:But imagine if you went back to your church and there was a man in your church who just decided to go out in the neighborhood and he decided to get all all the women in his neighborhood pregnant, and and it kind of moves, it kind of got real serious in the moment, because what I was trying to illustrate is, whether you're a Christian or not, somehow there is this moral definition of love that we all understand, right, that we know that if a man went out and just started getting all these women pregnant in his neighborhood that there's something not right about that.
Speaker 3:What is telling you that's not right, right? So there is a definition, isn't there, and it has moral implications. If your mom or dad come home and they say, hey, we're no longer going to be together. Or if I came home to my wife and I said, you know, honey, I love you, but I also love him and her and them, and I want to bring them into their home, you know, I can define that as love, but she would not have the same definition and somehow we would know that that's not right. Why do we know that? And so it was really just an introduction to hey. Culture can say that there's no definitions, but the biblical worldview, the way that it defines things, it fits in line with human flourishing and what your soul actually desires. And so when God defines love, he's actually defining it for you, because it's how you were created and it's what you long for. And then we walk through that passage and what it looks like, you know.
Speaker 1:So good. Students responded really well to it too. I want parents to be encouraged. I think a lot of parents are overwhelmed. Yes, how do I articulate? How do I combat this?
Speaker 1:I don't want to be the parent that's just ranting and screaming and yelling against culture, because the kids are so shaped by culture. First, I would say if you're going to be a parent right now, you have to have courage. Yes, you have to have courage, you have to have discernment, you have to be committed to the process and the time that it takes to parent. Well, you have to have these conversations, talk to kids all the time. They're like my parent we don't talk about this stuff. Or we have kids that are disenchanted because their dad is a ultra conservative MAGA guy who has turned them off to conservative, christian quote, unquote values or whatever, because he represents things that that make them feel unloved or uncared for, unnurtured, unaccepted. When you've got to, you've got to understand. As a parent right now, if you've got a, if you've got a single child, there's a good chance that child's going to wrestle with some of this, because what I believe has created the perfect storm, the perfect climate right now for this, is during the formative teenage years. Kids have always struggled with identity, yes. And so you go back and you watch 1950s, leave it to Beaver episodes, cheesy, hokey, corny sitcoms from the 50s, and kids were dealing with peer pressure. It's comical for us to now look at, but it's always been a thing in modern America, post-world War II, especially America, boomers, gen X and then on forward on down the line. So now you got a kid that's struggling with the typical struggles that a teenager has as their body's changing In Anxious Generation.
Speaker 1:He talks about Haidt, talks about how there's a rewiring that takes place somewhere between the age of 10 and 15. And as kids are being rewired, that's when you've got to learn how to deal with conflict, how to accept being unaccepted, how to have people not accept you for who you are, how to be rejected or argued with or disagreed with and we'll be and that's when a person gets rewired and learns how to deal with conflict, conflict resolution, how to be okay with going against the grain, things like that. Well, now, during those formative years, what I want parents to know is you're raising teenagers in a climate where they're scared to death of being rejected by their peers and by culture and society. But it's not. Oh, you might get rejected because you won't drink or smoke cigarettes or look at a dirty magazine. They might call you a goody-goody it's. They might call you a goody goody it's. They might call you a bigot, a racist. They might say that you are oppressive or dangerous. They might say they don't feel safe because of the views you hold.
Speaker 1:And so, kids, right now it's not enough, as a parent, for you to say, oh, just take a stand and and and stand up for what you believe in. No, these kids are unraveling because they're being called things and sort of put into a category that freaks them out. And so, rather than being put in that category now, if they compromise, it's not when you compromised in the 80s. It might mean that you drunk beer or smoked a cigarette or looked at a dirty magazine or listened to music that your parents didn't want you to listen to. Now it might mean that you go down a path with some irreversible decisions. But parents need to know it's not. It's not enough to just say, well, I'm gonna take you to church on sunday, we're gonna pray at meals and I'm gonna make jokes or say things about transgenders or people in the transgender movement or lgbtq. It's not enough to just do that. It's also not enough. It's also equally damnable to say, well, we need to come up with a way that we compromise and show and teach our kids Well, we got to be loving and accepting of all people because we're not talking.
Speaker 1:First and foremost, I know moms that struggle with. I feel sorry for this kid. She's transitioning and my heart breaks for her because she doesn't know who she is. So I want to love her well. Well, affirming her in that decision is not loving her. Yes, it's never loving to affirm a lie in someone's head.
Speaker 1:That's going to take them down a path of destruction. So we need to feel the tension of I want to love this kid that's going to school with my daughter who says she wants to be a boy. I want to love her and I want to help her, but affirming her decision to transition as a 16 year old is not loving her. Well, and so you're going to have to wade into child rearing right now and it might mean you don't have time for your own hobbies. You might not have. You might need to put your own phone down and get off of Facebook and engage in conversation day in and day out. Read the Nancy Piercy books, get educated. Be able to articulate what you're articulating to kids in a 45-minute session on Fridays at camp.
Speaker 1:It's not enough to carry them for the next 11 and a half months. It gives them momentum. We need parents and youth pastors to get in this fight.
Speaker 3:They are opening their phones and social media and being inundated, they are being discipled by the world at a level that you can't fathom. And so just one Sunday a week is not enough. And just to encourage parents, you know cause? I know sometimes we talk about some of these issues and they're pretty, they're pretty lofty, and you're like man, I'm not going to read a philosophy book or whatever, and so I just, you know, a word of encouragement.
Speaker 3:I think one of the most important thing that kids need right now is they need their, their parents. They need people in their life, not only to say this is what I believe, but to live that in front of them, to say, yes, we are a Bible-believing family, but not just from our mouth. This is what we live. We live the beliefs of the scriptures. We have such a love for each other that's rooted in Christ. We hold a standard to each other that's rooted in Christ. You know it's the Christianity, or the cultural Christianity where you put on the smile and you go to church. That I know.
Speaker 3:You know, listen, all of us have struggled.
Speaker 3:I'm not saying we're all living perfect lives all the time, but I'm saying where it's like, hey, we just put a smile.
Speaker 3:We go to church, but how we live at home is contrary to how we are in public and it's not a reflection of the scriptures. That's probably what our kids need more now than anything, because we're moving to be the Christian subculture and we need to teach our kids what it is to be faithful, to persevere, to be strong and also to create an environment where you know, hopefully, you're investing in their lives relationally to where they feel comfortable to ask you questions, because they have questions. They are just as confused on how to navigate this world as probably you are, as we are. You know we'll have discussions all the time Like what in the world they're putting cat litter boxes? Like how did we, you know? And and I mean I think all of us are in this cultural moment saying this is crazy Our kids have the same questions and hopefully in their you know, in their middle school, high school years, where all of us had identity crisis and all of us went resistance to the culture and pull them in.
Speaker 1:Yes, I'd like to piggyback on that. This will be the. Maybe this will be the last thought that I have for this, but that, that last thing you just said, made me think of. I want to be careful that I don't personalize this with any of my kids. I don't want to put them in an awkward situation. Most of them don't listen to this podcast anyway, but as a parent, it's important that you learn how to see. If I say this in a way that it makes sense. You've got to be willing to take a stand with your kids, to your kids, but you've got to do it in a way that they feel loved and supported. But you cannot compromise. So the two extremes that I see parents make, they're so heavy-handed that you know I remember talking to a dad.
Speaker 1:This was 20 years ago, probably 10 years ago. 10 years ago because I think most of our listeners know that I have a very blended family, single marriage, but we've got three biological children and then three kids that came into our family non-biological. Two of them are siblings and they are African American. And I had a guy ask me what would you do if your daughter came home and said she wanted to date a black guy and I found it comical and I was a smart aleck. He didn't know I was being a smart aleck and I said which daughter? Because I have two white daughters and one black daughter. And then he was like, oh yeah, I'm asking the why. You know, I think he started backpedaling because he realized, hey, dudes, the dudes, he's pretty prejudiced, you know. And but what it was his, his daughter was with a black guy, ended up having a kid by that black guy. She's a white girl. She ends up with a kid and another biracial child from another daddy, another baby daddy.
Speaker 1:And I remember it dawned on me and talking to this guy and in talking to his daughter later, she, I don't know that she cared if she was with the black guy, white guy, whatever she wanted to be with the thing that would that would like the most rebellious thing she could do towards her dad. You know what I'm saying? Yep, and because he was a guy who was very prejudiced. He was not a believer, this guy was. I knew this guy pretty well, as you know we, we lived, he lived right down the road from me. He was not a good person, he was alcoholic. He was just not a good person in any way and I know he was not a good dad and he had been married. I think he'd been married four times and her mom had no hand in raising her and he had raised her. Then she lived with her grandma.
Speaker 1:Anyway, the point I'm getting at this kid. She said what's the thing that will? How can I hurt my dad the most? And she did that. And I think there are kids that will go down a path of rebellion. But, like, if you end up in a relationship with a person from a different race or ethnicity, so what, you end up loving that person, that can be a beautiful thing, regardless of the skin color or the ethnicity of the person you end up with. A person could start off that girl could start off with with the guy from a different ethnicity as a rebellious act against her dad, but she could actually fall in love with that man. They could raise this child in the nurture and admonition of the Lord and what started as a rebellious act can be a beautiful thing. Yes, you go down a path of transitioning as an act of rebellion and you can't come back from it.
Speaker 3:No.
Speaker 1:You see what I'm saying. Yes, parents need to know you have to feel an urgency to stay engaged with your kids and not drive them towards a rebellious mindset. Kids want to be loved and led and invested in, even through the formative years. Just be present, you don't have to be overly vocal. You don't have to be overly vocal. You don't have to understand all the tenets of what we're talking about. And how do you defend and argue? And just love your children, make them feel loved. Your stepchildren, let them feel supported, have conversation, be engaged.
Speaker 1:The thing I was going to say a while ago that I don't want to name one of my kids, but one of my children.
Speaker 1:We had a situation where my kids got swept up in a situation with a phone and there was some sexting going on between a group of teenagers and the fact that when the Lord exposed that to Little my wife, we sat down with that kid, we didn't freak out, we didn't tell that child we were disappointed in them, we didn't punish them.
Speaker 1:There were some consequences, but we distinguished punishment from hey, there are going to be some repercussions to this, because we care about you, we want to protect you, yes, and we navigated that and it was a long navigation process. But I think one of the things that I learned and I was overwhelmed by the grace of God in my reaction and in Little's reaction neither one of us freaked out on this kid, we just said, hey, we love you a lot and we know this is something that will bring pain down the road for you if you go down this path and we want to help bring you back from this. Yes, when that child, that teenage, young teenage child, saw us not freak out, it was almost like it steadied their own nerves and spirit. But then they also realized but there are some repercussions moving forward. Yes, so navigate those waters, you don't have to be heavy-handed, but you don't need to be a pushover that's right you got to get in there.
Speaker 3:There was a standard that was still set and there in place. You know, yeah, I love that because, you know, we all did stupid things. I man, I think back. I've did so many dumb things in my middle school, high school, even, even after high school years, things that could have dramatically, you know, changed my life.
Speaker 3:You know, by the grace of God, I am where I am today and I think about raising my son and my daughter and I just think, man, like you know, there there's always been predators in this world, but it has multiplied. There's ideological predators now that are waiting for those weak moments in your child's life that they can swoop them up and do irreversible damage in their life. You know, and we're just, we're doing, we're going to walk faithfully with the Lord, walk faithfully with the Lord. Hopefully, our children will be able to say, like I know, that my mom, my dad, they're believers, they love Jesus, not perfect, but they, you know, they, they are who they say they are, they are real and I, I have a relationship with them. I can ask them questions, I can, you know, I can navigate these choppy waters with them. You know, yeah, that's good.
Speaker 1:So good. Well, we're going to be done. We're going to wrap this up. Let us know what you think. John R at SWOutfitterscom. Brody B-R-O-D-Y. At SWOutfitterscom. John R is John without an H J-O-N-R, Brody B-R-O-D-Y. Either Brody B-R-O-D-Y, Either one of us. You can email us at SWOutfitterscom. We are going to come back with one brief episode where we're going to talk a little bit about the political climate. So that'll be coming up soon. That'll follow this. But thanks for sticking with us through almost two hours of content, two episodes worth of content. I hope it's been beneficial to you. We kind of were all over the place, but I like these. I like that. I like that kind of people seem to enjoy that kind of content.
Speaker 3:Um, so hopefully it was and if you don't with us, if you don't enjoy it, you can email, just joking email, hank yeah, that's right.
Speaker 1:And and now I gotta get john his first deer, his first hog. You, you're doing, you, you've, you've come along with your fishing listen.
Speaker 3:I was just having a conversation with somebody about this today, earlier this morning. One of the one of the summer staffers and I was talking. I said hey, I'm a west coast guy. I came over here I never I have I don't know how to hunt, didn't know really how to fish, you know, and I said I'm, I'm growing, I'm growing in my skills. I said I've taken up the fishing, you know.
Speaker 1:I said this year I'm gonna hunt kill some I'm gonna that's, that's next step and then we're gonna take the heart out of it, paint your face with with it, and then we're going to slice it thin. And I'm a brave heart, eat that thing.
Speaker 3:That's right. Listen, I haven't watched five seasons of Alone for nothing. That's right.
Speaker 1:That's awesome. Alright, see y'all next time.
Speaker 2:Thanks for listening to no Sanity Required. Please take a moment to subscribe and leave a rating. It really helps. Visit us at SWOutfitterscom to see all of our programming and resources, and we'll see you next week on no Sanity Required.
